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#273429 - 09/28/09 01:59 AM Re: The world's newest Axiomite it born... [Re: Micah]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11208
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
I'll be looking forward to seeing what you do end up with for a sub or subs. I can certainly relate on the wanting things to just work. I had my own string of bad luck with the EP800s. However, when I finally had them send completely new units, those ended up working. I'm glad they did, or I very well could have started looking elsewhere myself. While it's always exciting looking at new products, it's also nice to have the decision made.

I would love to see one of the JL subs in person. They certainly do look well-made from what I've seen online.

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#273433 - 09/28/09 08:33 AM Re: The world's newest Axiomite it born... [Re: CV]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6613
Loc: It's all about the location.
Micah, did you ever try Alan's suggestion to run the sub below +3db?
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#273436 - 09/28/09 10:47 AM Re: The world's newest Axiomite it born... [Re: Adrian]
Micah Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1789
Loc: Indiana you hoser!!!!
I never got the chance to. His suggestion came after the sub stopped playing. I will not bad mouth the EP800 because I heard SRoodes twin 800's produce awesome bass (although he did have one that had a bit of a clicking noise coming out of it, wonder how he solved it?), so I know they are capable. But what I will say is that the comment that playing them above +3 'could' be overloading the DSP & causing the distortion was a bit disappointing to me. After all when you read the write-up on the sub it is discribed as 'unbreakable'... Well the JL was playing at +12 without a hint of distortion for quite some time. This is the kind of trait that I'm looking for in a $2000+ dollar subwoofer. Even if I don't play it up there (as I said, at that level the bass was truely over powering!), I would still like to know I 'could' if I wanted to. Does that make any sense?

I thought long & hard all day yesterday about my next step. The idea of getting a new amp in & everything did run through my head, but honestly, I think its better for both me and Axiom if we just put an end to this debacle before it goes south! I've said time and time again that they're customer service is simply brilliant, but I don't want to push it any further. They've been great, I'd hate for my experience to drag on any longer & test their patience. Also I really don't want my experience to put a dark cloud over Axiom in any way, shape or form! I don't doubt that Axiom makes great equipment, I just consider my own luck the exception, not the rule.

What truely does suck is that the EP800 was so perfect sitting at the bottom of my HT closet & all. I did love having the same name brand through out my entire system. That's the hardest part to get over, the fact that I'm going to have to change up the mix, as well as wondering what the hell I'm going to do with that huge hole in the bottom of my HT closet??? I suppose I could make another shelf down there for future electronics and the like.

It won't be the same, but it's about the only thing I can do. What are the chances I could find another manufacturer that produces a sub with the same dimensions that would fill that space, eh? I'd say little to none!
_________________________
My Stuff :

M80's
QS8's
VP150
EP800
Denon 4802
Emotiva XPA-3
Samsung BD-P3600
Sharp 65 Inch Aquos LCD

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#273438 - 09/28/09 11:47 AM Re: The world's newest Axiomite it born... [Re: Micah]
alan Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi Micah,

Just a slight elaboration on my recommendation for you to avoid running the Denon LFE output at levels higher than +3 dB. That was simply my erring on the side of caution. We don't have a Denon at the Axiom plant, I don't use one, and I have no idea whether the Denon LFE output produces distortion when you run it at higher levels. This was speculation by Tom, our chief electronics engineer, on what could possibly be wrong in your setup. We have never experienced the DSP of any of our subs, including the EP800, being overloaded and as I mentioned in a previous post, we ran the Sherwood Newcastle to +12 dB with no negative effects in our test of the EP800 we sent you.

The "unbreakable" comment is referring to the limiter in the DSP and amp section, in that with any of our DSP subs, you can keep turning up the volume of the sub itself to maximum and the DSP/limiter will prevent damage to the driver or the amplifier because the DSP is programmed with the limits that can be endured by the driver and the amplifier. It is not related to the theoretical situation of sending a distorted signal to the input of the subwoofer. While I have not encountered an AV receiver that goes into distortion when the LFE output is raised too high, an informed former colleague at Sound&Vision magazine did find that bench testing of some AVRs revealed the LFE output would go into distortion if raised too high.

Look, at Axiom we've being going nuts trying to figure out what the f*** is wrong in your system, so we've been grasping at the most extreme scenarios. I'm sorry you are so far away, relatively, because my technical curiosity is such that it's bugging me no end as to what is at fault in this seeming weird incompatibility of the EP800 and your Denon. If I believed in such things, I'd say the odd behavior is the result of a poltergeist caused by a teen-ager with overactive hormones in the area.

It may be that we have to write this one off as one of those weird flukes that occasionally occur.

Regards,
Alan
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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#273441 - 09/28/09 12:26 PM Re: The world's newest Axiomite it born... [Re: alan]
Micah Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1789
Loc: Indiana you hoser!!!!
Lol, I think we are both in the same boat. If you and your engineering team (and possibly a priest who does exorcisms) ever find the time and money to take off to Indiana for a thorough study on the weird behavior of my system, I would be most willing to accomodate you all!!! \:\)
_________________________
My Stuff :

M80's
QS8's
VP150
EP800
Denon 4802
Emotiva XPA-3
Samsung BD-P3600
Sharp 65 Inch Aquos LCD

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#273442 - 09/28/09 12:29 PM Re: The world's newest Axiomite it born... [Re: Micah]
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 10903
Loc: Central NH
Alan will be the one wearing a "Will Reverse-Engineer For Beer" T-shirt. \:\)
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#273444 - 09/28/09 12:35 PM Re: The world's newest Axiomite it born... [Re: MarkSJohnson]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10398
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Micah, I just realized what the problem is, you have an Emotiva amp running with M80s, with those 2 items working together the Audio Gods are forced to condem something else in your system and they have chosen the subwoofer. ;\) \:\)

So when are you going to modify your subwoofer space to handle dual F112's? \:\)
_________________________
Jason
-----------------
TTTHHHPPPPPTTTT!

My HT

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#273445 - 09/28/09 12:35 PM Re: The world's newest Axiomite it born... [Re: alan]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16280
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Alan and Micah,

I make house calls and am a *great* troubleshooter. I only ask for airfare.





Ok, and beer. \:\)
_________________________
"I wish I had documented more…" said nobody on their death bed, ever.

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#273454 - 09/28/09 02:23 PM Re: The world's newest Axiomite it born... [Re: pmbuko]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6613
Loc: It's all about the location.
Yeah!


"Ding dong!!.....::runs and hides behind shrubs, snickering::
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#273455 - 09/28/09 02:25 PM Re: The world's newest Axiomite it born... [Re: Adrian]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17782
Loc: NoVA
I don't think "great troubleshooter" and ding dong ditch go together.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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