Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater axiom m60 and onkyo NR801

Mike,

crude, yes, but rude?

I'm calling bulls**t! I do not believe for a second that question was your initial intention when you made your first post; however, I will answer it now that you have asked. By "commonly known" I of course mean generally well-known, and it is "generally well-known" by people in the industry (meaning: insiders, reviewers, testers, people who actually do this stuff for a living) that their receivers are BRIGHT.

In reply to:

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And what is common?

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Common: ordinary, universal, accepted, common place, characteristic, general, unassuming, typical, obvious, shared, mutually held.

I agree, not really rude, more rudimentary...immature. Not that one is really any better than the other though.

Well, regardless of who is rude or who isn't, I, like Peter, am tired of statements like "the excessive brightness that Onkyo is known through out the industry for." being presented as hard fact, rather than as a personal opinion. I suspect that is the cause of Peter's abruptness.

Posting unsubstantiated rumors, as anything other than opinion, is a little on the rude side also. I have no objection to the poster, or anyone else, believing this statement, but I do have a problem with posting it as fact without providing proof of that fact. Had the poster stated that "in his opinion, Onkyo is bright," we wouldn't be having this conversation. But, since he posted that it is "known throughout the industry," I don't think it excessive to ask him to substantiate that statement. We, after all, have an obligation to those who come here to learn (and don't we all), to stick as close to fact as possible, and be responsible for our statements, so as not to mislead anyone looking to spend their hard-earned money.

IF it is hard fact, IF this is "known throughout the industry," then the poster who made the statement should be able to post some scientific evidence, other than the opinions of others who also believe the statement, that it is, indeed, a fact.

I've heard this "Onkyo is bright" litany, on occasion, before, but have yet been presented with any graph, or other scientific proof that this is the case.

Please post PROOF, or else we'll have to assume it is just a myth being spread by the uninitiated. My mind is open.

WOW, you guys need to borrow some valium from ken...

SXU- i do have the onkyo 701, which is basically the 801 without the netcard feature, and i really dig it. it has plenty of bells and whistles to satisfy any HT craving, and has MORE than enough power to push my M60's to deafening levels. in fact, as i have mentioned before, i have yet to get the volume knob to max cause it literally hurts my ears with how loud it is. as far as performance and clarity, i think it is terrific. i think the receiver does well with music and movies, and i have no issues with the "brightness" factor that has been mentioned. keep in mind, i have never heard my onkyo with any other speakers than my M60's, but i have heard other brands of receivers with different brands of speakers. i truly think that onkyo offers a product that is on par with the other receivers in the same market.(denon, yamaha, HK, etc.) in addition, now that the 802's have been released, you should be able to find the 801 at some great prices. i wouldnt be surprised if you can get it for under $500, and that a steal.

BTW- the only downside to my onkyo, is that it can run a little hot when pushed hard for extended amounts of time. it hasnt been a problem, but be aware that you will need to have it in a well ventilated area, so it can get plenty of fresh air. other than that, ROCK ON!!!

feel free to IM me if you have any specific questions you would like answered.

bigjohn

I have the onkyo tx-sr600 and bright is the last thing i would call it if anything i would say its a little laid back but i like it and it has clean performance. I like the people on this forum they are very helpful but i hate when advice is asked for and people tell you what other people say whether it be professional or consumer i think when people come here and ask those questions they want first hand experience answers. because if we listened to hearsay we would not buy axioms because they are so bright and fatiging they make your ears bleed (exageration intended).

Anyway, like I said Onkyo is known for its excessive brightness, but that doesn't necessarily mean you will experience that when you hear it. Be sure to post your thoughts if and when you get it, and good luck with the purchase.

I know there are those on this forum that don't believe a receiver can have a signature (bright, warm, etc.). Others contend that receivers 'X,Y,&Z'are examples of warm receivers while 'A,B,&C' are examples of bright receivers. I have seen examples of this when somebody posts a question like "what is the best receiver to match with the M60's" etc.

While I am not condoning one position or the other, I will add that while I did my nearly year-long search for a receiver, I ran across the "Japanese receivers are notorious for sounding bright" comment in many forums and even in a few articles. It can be really confusing for a newcomer who is in the market for their first home theatre.

Anyway, getting to the point....For those of you that believe receivers can have their own sonic signature, what is the cause? Is it the DAC's they use that give them their bright/warm/neutral characteristic? Are there other factors as well such as the quality of transistors and other internal electronics?

Yeah, what Jack said.

SXU,
From the initial responses, you can see that we are a diverse group in terms of equipment and opinions. You will need to accept that we all have different views, experiences and tastes. In terms of your choices, I would agree that you should have little trouble and enjoy your pieces.

Ok, my turn:

Minirock: I would have to agree with the sentiment that proof should be provided. There are far too many people who provide feedback on this board that do not, or can not substantiate their claims to be more than their own subjective opinion. You mention “people in the industry” then it should be easy to point to references. However, it can work the other way, as reviewers have biases as well. But regardless if we put any credibility in the source - it is generally accepted as an educated opinion backed by some level of technical detail. I must say that I will read such reviews, but do not rely or trust them to be the gospel.

PMBUKO: I believe minirock was agreeing that the piece should deliver, but had something to add. I agree with your message, but not the delivery. Maybe you meant nothing by this, but I must admit I reread the response – and to be honest other similar sounding response from you – and I was left unsure of the motive.

On your shopping experience, I once had a salesperson friend who shared the “secret guide to sales” unwritten rules of the trade, and some actual training he “endured” for a large company. The amusing part was that sales reps learn to determine the level of the purchaser, and tailor their selling techniques to deliver what it is their current purchaser will buy. It could be that you were deemed to be at the level of Paradigm and Onkyo, and the rep knows not to bother to provide anything above, or below this level of equipment.

KC MIKE : perhaps…as stated above the deliver was misguided. Pieces can have differences, and that can stem from design differences, quality of internal parts, and the aim of the product. You must also understand that everyone’s tastes, experiences and hearing ability is different.

AJAX: dear ole’ Jack….you have been around here long enough to realize this happens every day or two…..people have opinions, they quote sources, drop names, make common errors in judgment. We all have our pet peeves about things, but they will happen again. Had the conversation taken an “IMO, Onkyo is brutal…” direction, would that be better? If you read the threads – and I know you do – most of what is posted is opinion! Even when reviews are quoted, we must understand that most of it is based on the reviewer’s opinion. Sometimes there are some technical details, but again, the lack of standards applied to all pieces within a realm (speakers, amps, etc) means this can be used as a marketing tool.

SNAKEYES: good points – except that if people post first hand experience, and it is not favorable, we get the same retorts from those who disagree. If you like Onkyo and I honestly find Onkyo bright, who is correct? If it is opinion, then we both are correct.

Ok, now that I have typed more in one response than in a typical week, I will jump down off my soapbox and lead a group hug!!!! LOL