Help!

Sorry for the post length.

I have become a comic strip character. My brother-in-law is hot to buy a Bose 3-2-1 GS.

He can get it for $800 but wouldn’t mind spending less.

He is sold on the idea of getting “surround” out of just the two speakers, and his lovely wife seems to miss not having access to a radio.

He has a new Hitachi 50” 720p plasma, an older Sony 5-DVD carousel (“it’s big”), Dish Network HD DVR and a Wii. He’ll get a Blu-Ray player when they become cheap.

The room cannot be rearranged. It is a smallish alcove next to the kitchen/dining area. It has no left rear wall and opens to a large living room. Most use is TV, with some movies and a little bit of music.

I love my wife’s brother and his family, and want to help them find a solution that is satisfying. Please provide me with additional wisdom. Letter below.

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Thanks for asking. I do enjoy this stuff.

I might need a picture of where your TV is.

You should do whatever makes [spouse] happy.

That being said, there is a lot to consider.

What you’re trying to do is replace several discrete components all at the same time.

  • DVD Player. You already have one, so the only advantages of replacing it now are system integration and saving space. DVD players are cheap. Personally, I'd save the money now and get a Blue-Ray player later.
  • Receiver (including tuner, amplifier, surround processor). You’ve got to have this stuff. You can’t put quality components on a postage stamp. There are electrical laws to be obeyed here.
  • Main Speakers (front left, right and center). Okay, size matters. With the Bose and other similar speakers, the small size prevents them from reproducing sound down below about 200Hz. Consequently, the woofer module has to produce frequencies that are much higher than a typical subwoofer. The downsides are twofold; performance is compromised (the deep notes just are not there) and the sound is more easily localized (either it’s not there at all, or you can tell it is coming from the woofer module instead of the main speakers).
  • Surround Speakers. Keep in mind that NONE of the “one box” solutions is going to provide as realistic or enveloping surround sound as even the most modest system that actually has 5 discrete speakers. I know you are all about making the installation clean, but even some inexpensive inwall speakers are going to dramatically outperform any of the quasi-surround effects generated by the Bose, Yamaha, Polk, etc. alternatives.
  • Subwoofer. Anything that comes with a HTIB (Home Theatre In a Box) is not going to be very good. Size of the box and the woofer and the amplifier power all make a pretty huge difference. There is a wide chasm between real subwoofers and the mid-bass modules like the Bose Acoustimass system.
  • Universal Remote Control (component integration). This is really pretty important. Part of the allure of the Bose is that you’re NOT going to have to dink around with multiple remotes and multiple boxes. However, there are alternatives, like universal remotes (URC, Harmony, etc.) and buying a CD player and receiver from the same manufacturer.


It stands to reason that – beyond the notion that you get what you pay for – having discrete components for each of these functions is going to give you better performance.

But it’s not all about performance.

In your case, it is also about these factors, which might be even more important than performance
  • Value
  • Ease of use
  • Size

You WILL make compromises. It is up to you to decide where to make them.

It is terribly important to remember that the “simplicity” and integration of the Bose type systems does NOT save you money and does NOT give you improved performance. You are paying a premium for convenience.

One other significant drawback to the all-in-one solution is that you simply cannot upgrade or replace it in increments. If you use a different strategy, you can upgrade piece-by-piece. If you have to replace the Bose system, you just have to replace it all.

My personal opinion is that you would benefit FAR more from having a high quality 2.1 system than you will from a concocted surround thing. If it was me, especially in that small room, I’d get a modest receiver, a good, inexpensive subwoofer and a pair of decent small speakers and go from there. I think that LFE in movies (and music) is far more interesting than surround effects. And you could always add surround speakers later.

Now, I’d try to talk you into separating some of these things out for the reasons I’ve described (value, performance, upgradeability). However, there are various scenarios.

Scenario One: You have to have all of this in one system (like the Bose). One/Two speaker solution with integrated DVD player. There are not many alternative products.

I think Bang and Olufson still makes some wildly expensive equipment. Very overpriced, but it does exist. I think just the speaker is about $4,000.

The KEF Kit 120 instant theatre system costs about $2,000. I would not buy it, but it does provide a good frame of reference. I’ll bet it sounds superb. KEF is a great company.

The Philips HTS8100 provides direct competition for a modest price. It has MUCH better video features than the Bose (HDMI output instead of component) and also seems to have better integration of USB and iPod. You can get it for $600 through Amazon
or Best Buy. The reviews on Amazon can be pretty good sometimes.

The not-yet-released (April 2008) Polk Audio Surround Bar 360 has an MSRP of $1,200. I would expect it to vastly outperform the Bose or Philips offerings, as it should for twice the price. There is a similar, cheaper alternative from Polk that requires separate electronics (see a different scenario below).

Scenario Two: You really want just that one speaker, but you might be willing to consider keeping your existing DVD player or getting a new, smaller one for cheap

The downside here could be the radio issue. Not all of these types of things have integrated radio. I would of course encourage use of the Dish Network channels, but that is up to you.

Boston Acoustics TVee Model Two is a simple, stereo soundbar. It comes with a small sub that is wireless (except for the power; no speaker cord to the sub). You just run the audio output from your TV to the unit and go. Could not be easier. It doesn’t do “surround”, but this might actually be a pretty decent option for you. It’s not expensive, it’s super easy, and it doesn’t even require another remote control. It is JUST an upgrade to your TV speakers. Worth considering. MSRP $349. It does not seem to be available for less.

Yamaha makes THE BEST solutions in this area. But they are a bit more expensive. You’d have an outboard DVD player and a sub. But the effects can be very good, although in your room, I just don’t know how effective ANY of these things will be. Still, the Yamaha’s are a good value when you consider that they replace a set of speakers AND a receiver.

The YSP-900 is $699 at Vanns. Etronics has it for $535. It comes with a microphone to calibrate to your room.

The YSP-3000 costs a little more, but it has HDMI, better video, a built-in FM tuner and a bunch of other stuff. There are some deep prices out there, but make sure you get a reputable seller. I’ve never done business with them, but Etronics seems to get decent reviews.

Denon makes GREAT products. The DHT-FS3 includes the sub, but it’s $1,200.

They also recently introduced a similar product with a $499 MSRP (DHT-FS5), but I can’t find it anywhere yet.

The ZVox gets really good reviews.

I don’t know much about Niro, but here are other options.

I would absolutely consider this $299 SoundMatters solution as an alternative to the Bose

Scenario Three: You really want just that one speaker, but you’re willing to have separate DVD and Receiver:

There’s really only one choice – The Polk Surround Bar for $500 at Amazon. Add a modest receiver for ~$150 and an inexpensive sub for ~$200 for a fine sounding, very upgradeable system.

Scenario Four: You’re willing to have separate speakers and components.

This is what I would do..

Get a refurb Onkyo TXSR505 receiver for $149. This is a VERY robust, modern receiver for a great value. Lots of switching and surround modes.

Or, better yet, I’ll sell you my Denon 1804 for the same price \:\)

Throw a $75 upscaling DVD player in your cart if you want to use the same remote for everything.

I’d get a pair of small, decent main speakers and a sub. You could also get a center channel, but I honestly think that you’d be pretty happy with a phantom center (matrixed by the left/right channels), especially since you sit relatively close. You can always add a center channel later.

I am very predisposed to internet direct companies. They’ll all let you try their stuff for free for a while.

Lots of choices. Any of which you’d be VERY happy with for many years.

Aperion Audio is in Portland. A couple different choices for $200-260/pair. They’ll pay shipping BOTH WAYS if you don’t like them.

av123 x-ls $299/pair plus shipping. Very nice.

Ascend Audio has a fanatical following. Good option at $298/pair including shipping

I’m a big fan of Axiom speakers. We have the M60’s. Very happy customer. Get the Factory Outlet ones to save 10%. M2’s for $266/pair, M3’s for $298. Including shipping

I have a (made in USA) SVS Subwoofer. Another great company. Their bookshelf speakers get good reviews. $225 plus shipping.

This is probably the cheapest subwoofer I’d consider buying. It is a great value at $199 plus shipping.

For the surround channels, since you want inwalls, don’t get fancy. It’s just the surround speakers. I have these Mirage in the kitchen and I’m satisfied. Easy to install. You have a basement; how hard can it be to run some wire? $99 free shipping no tax.

If you can tolerate little black boxes instead, the Hsu Ventriloquist system is a killer for $539 including shipping. Very serious subwoofer.

There are lots of speaker choices. For a fantastic value, this KEF KHT1005 would tide you over for quite a while. $299 including five speakers and the sub.

bibere usque ad hilaritatem