I'm looking at the Denons at accessories4less, they appear to be a Denon dealer and seem to have a good rep on here. I bought a HK refurb about 6 yrs ago from HK and had no troubles til now, center channel went out, I never had a center speaker til about a month ago, it worked fine for a few weeks then lost it. I found a local tech who repairs HK, havent taken it to him yet but he told me on the phone that its not an uncommon problem with them and usually requires replacing the entire board, most likely better off replacing unit. Im taking it to him this week to get it checked out. I was torn between HK and Denon when I bought it so I'm thinking DEnon now. Any thoughts on last years Denon models refurb vs this years, like 1712 vs 1713? Seems like you can really get a great deal with last years models.