Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Bright or Warm?

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When I started looking at Denon, people said "Oh man, whatever you do, don't combine Denon with Axiom, you will get a very mechanical, bright, harsh sound" This crap just kills me.

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Every receiver I've heard so far sounds mechanical.

If they didn't, I don't think I'd hear anything.

That stuff is hilarious. People love to believe their hearing is godlike, which makes blind test articles all the better.

It really has no meaning to me, everybody hears things differently, and has various definitions to describe what they are hearing, which also varies from person to person.

I say trust your own ears, but also consider what others offer for advice.

Sure glad I was able to demo Axioms, otherwise I may have made a terrible mistake based on hearsay

Thanks Alan!

As I recall, 20 years ago many of the speaker enclosures had only one speaker in them which was used to "try" to cover the entire audio spectrum. I fully understand that a single speaker may have problems covering this spectrum. And, I am not surprised that some of the better (relative flat frequency response across the audio spectrum) like the M80s use multiple speakers in their enclosures with cross overs to overcome some of these limitations.

I think that it may be misleading to use these terms with receivers or amplifiers if they actually meet their specifications. Why? Unless the reviewer is considering some of the processing algorithms or like, the differences simply are not there.

Thasp: it is excellent to post that article from time to time. It is a GREAT article. I have read it before, several times. I think that JohnK may have posted it on a thread on this board a month or two ago.

There was another article about how participants for a few minutes in a blind session won't be able to detect differences but over time, they surely would.

What you are missing from what Mr. Lofft or others might say is that the terms bright and warm can only have value in the context of what other speakers sound like. I believe Axiom M60s are bright and forward when compared to many other speakers. Were Axioms no different sounding than other speakers, you would have no reason to consider Axioms over other speakers.

In terms of speakers, I think that you can realistically say that there are differences from speaker type to speaker type. You can look at their spectral response and actually see the difference.

But, one of the points that I was bringing up was that these terms have migrated to descriptors of receivers. I believe that there should be NO difference between the amplifiers in the receivers if they are meeting specifications. The difference, if any, should be in the processing or pre processing algorithms. The receivers playing music from FM stations, CD, phono or other input (without processing) should sound NO different.

Now, if they really do sound different, WHY?

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Now, if they really do sound different, WHY?

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Well to start, not everyone uses the same power supply. Not everyone uses the same output stage. Not everyone uses the same capacitors. Some are still using MOFSET based power amps and some are not. Some pay more attention to current then wattage.

That is just a few. I can come up with more.

Guy's I'm not trying to get this whole debate going again on receivers all sound the same but take it from a guy who has tried 7 different receivers with the exact same speakers located in the exact same position, in the exact same room etc etc etc, that to my ears, there is no way they all sound the same. A lot of them do but not all of them.

Never: no, my friend, this is not about power supplies, capacitors and the like. If you have "linear" amplifiers specified to be spectrally flat from 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz and distortion products way below 1 %, THEN THEY CAN NOT SOUND DIFFERENT, unless there is something different input to them. I'm sorry, that is just the definition of a "linear" amplifier. What goes in the input is reproduced "exactly" at the output, but with a higher power/ voltage/ current. If it isn't, then you don't have a linear amplifier. That much is clear. Or, could it be, that the so called "linear" amplifiers really aren't linear. As I recall. the FTC specs are tested with a single tone???

So, given the above, what makes one receiver "brighter"
than another if it isn't the preprocessing?

I'm not saying that you haven't heard differences. Maybe you have. But, if you have, what caused them?

I know that I have learned a lot about amplifiers/ power supply design and implementation on another thread on this board. I would like to better understand what is going on before the amplifiers.

Before I buy another receiver or separates, I would like to better understand what games manufacturers are currently playing!!!!!!!!!!

Question:(and NOT to get fight going, cause John asked us not to, while he's on vacation)

But, from your experience, do the electronics that generally fit within the range of cost/quality that the vast majority of "us" would use, sound pretty much alike?

F107: I have no intention of fighting with anyone. LOL!! My only intention is to find out a little more before I purchase a new unit.

However, when I see a post that "appears" wrong, I will make a comment. With power supplies, the fundamental considerations are output current and voltage capabilities/ regulation as a function of load. If the power supply is adequately specified for its load and is performining to its specifications, then, we should notice NO difference because of its component parts.

In this discussion we are not talking about RAM (Reliability, Availability, and Maintainabilty). Those are different and different parts can make a huge difference.

To answer your question, I simply do not know. If you believe the specifications, there should be no differences. Yet, many people comment that there are.

Are they correct?

Are they fooling themselves?

I don't know, but would like to know the answer.

I have an opinion, but I will save that for a later post.