Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Bright or Warm?

Unless I’m mistaken, the article refers strictly to Amplifiers, not processors or controllers. They used the same pre/amp throughout the tests with different amplifiers.

I think folks get confused when this conversation comes up. Half the audience considers an amplifier the magic box that makes it all happen…IE: the AVR. The other half is talking about he amplifier, so then the arguments start, even though half the group thinks the other half is discussing the same thing……but they aren’t.

So, when referring to the possibility of differing SQ from an amp, stick to the amp and don’t include the processor. Big difference.

mdrew: I may get flamed for this, but, I think that the main issue/ problem is that some (perhaps most) really don't know what they are talking about? Electronic theory and physics are not exactly the simplest of subjects.

I understand the use of "bright," "warm," etc. when referencing a speaker, but I am still lost as to exactly what causes a receiver or pre processor to be "bright" if it is not processing algorithms or some sort of pre-emphasis?????

And, I am still looking for a good explanation of what do you get in a separate pre processor that you don't get in a receiver. In general the processing/ switching/ upgrading seems to be a generation ahead in the receivers.

Comments??

Well if you’re asking me specifically, my short answer is…..beats the hell out of me. I’m still learning this hobby as I stumble along. I have some experience with instrumentation and electronics from the technical trade, but that’s not saying much.

That being said, an amplifier does absolutely nothing to the signal but "amplify" it. It does not manipulate it in any way shape or form. However, I suspect that the basic physical size and real estate that the separates have over a receiver will dictate the time and quality of gizmos the manufactures can design and install. I’m just guessing, but I strongly suspect that this alone will enable the sound to be “cleaner”. And this would be due to a higher level of isolation between electronic components. But sound different??? Warm or Bright??? No friggin way do I by that. It’s impossibility from a theoretical perspective.

Now pre / pros, and receivers? Absolutely. Just think about how the signal is passed from the source to the amp. It goes through the processor. This is where all the magic happens. Including tone controls. Just the different sound options that a person can make on an AVR (dolby, pro logic, etc…) is a pretty good indicator that the signal isn’t simply passed through, but manipulated.

In reply to:

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And, I am still looking for a good explanation of what do you get in a separate pre processor that you don't get in a receiver

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There is very noticable difference. I can tell you that from my own experience. I switched from Rotel RX-1052 stereo receiver to Rotel RB-1070 first and then RB-1080 (2X200W) power amp, and RC-1070 stereo pre/amp, and notices an improvement right away: sound was cleaner, better soundstage, crisper highs and, the most important, I noticed a kind of separations between the highs and bass, if I can explain it right. The music gained a kind of "punch" that I had not noticed before. Also, I could hear things that I had not heard before (guitar strings, singer's breath, instruments had not noticed before). Also, the silence in between tracks (or in a silent part of a track for that matter) was much "more silent" and then boom!!! something would start!! Does it make sense??

thyname: OK, what parameters caused the difference that you are seeing? What metrics can I look for in the specifications that can help me discriminate one from another?

Comments?

I have been told not to look to much at the parameters and specs, since they are often similar from one piece of equipment to the other. It is the build quality that makes the difference. In the case of separates vs. receivers, I believe it is the fact the two pieces handle separately two different functions instead of everything been handled by one. It is a matter of efficiency in peforming a duty, kind of labor division to compare it with. Again, I am no engineer or a technical expert on audio to be able to explain above scientifically, however, my ears can easily tell the difference.

Your describing the difference I heard when I added the monoblocks.

<<I could hear things that I had not heard before (guitar strings, singer's breath, instruments had not noticed before). >>

I think my words were very close to being the same.

My take on it exactly. And Rick (Wid) said the same thing. So unless we were all puffing off the safe pipe (passing it back and forth, several thousand miles away from each other), I think that’s a pretty strong argument that there is a noteworthy SQ improvement when going the separate route.

Everything just sounds, well…..better, even at lower volume levels. There’s more punch at the lower volumes, which I really do not understand why or how this could happen. In some of my favorite tracks, I now hear things that I didn’t before.

And I went from the HK 7200, which is no slouch of an AVR, to the Rotel combo. When I initially swapped over, I spent a fair amount of time listening to both the HK and the Rotels. Back and forth with the speaker cables, over and over. I had to know for myself, and when I initially did it, I did not believe that I would be able to tell a difference. I’ve been pleasantly surprised ever since.

mdrew: I think what both you and Bug may have seen was the difference in amplifiers. Recall the link on another thread describing receiver power supplies? Price points indicated 1/8, 1/3 and full power. The author also mentioned that under certain conditions some audio required 40% power supply capability. Well, at 1/8 or 1/3, you just don't get that 40%!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think this effect is exactly what you and Bug saw. I also think that we have a good handle on this.

Now, for the part ahead of the amplifiers, I'm not so sure. What can a separate preprocessor do better than the receiver section? Why should some receivers be labeled "bright?" I don't have a handle on this.

I've looked at a few more of the preprocessors and they really don't seem to have the HDMI switching and USB capabilities of some of the newer, lower priced, receivers.

Don't really understand this.