Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners PSB or not to PSB?

My son has a HT speakers setup consisting of PSB 5Ts as fronts, the 8C center and a PSB sub, but needs rears in a 5.1 setup. His BA rears are going bye-bye. Would he be better off staying with PSB or would a pair of Axiom M3ti or QS4 or 8 be a better option?

Tough call. I listened to PSB Image 5s before buying my Axioms and I did like the sound of the Axioms better. Also, for a home theater system, the QS4 and QS8s are tough to beat because they do a fantastic job of giving you the "large room" sensation of a movie theater and still do a good job on directional sounds / special effects.

On the other hand there is an argument for matching the sound between fronts and surrounds, but I find that is a bigger issue for 5.1 music than for movies.

I would say if he listens to a lot of music in 5.1 (rather than just using the mains as a lot of people do) he should look at the matching PSB surrounds... but if he is mostly using the system for home theater then go with the QS4s.

We had a talk. He really wants the QS8s. His intention is to use the system mainly to listen to DVD-A and SACD discs. I've often heard that a normal bookshelf, such as the M3 or the PSB B15 would be preferable to a dipole speaker in this application. Wall mountable is a must since he is limited spacewise. It's a small room, so I told him QS4s would be plenty. The PSB dipole is quite a bit more expensive than the QS4s. Maybe the new wall mountable line could be a consideration. I wonder when they will be available???

I'm just guessing here, but IF the QS4s do sound any different from QS8s (rather than just power handling / sound output) then the QS4s would probably be a closer sonic match to the PSBs than QS8s. Axiom tends to pair up the QS4s with the M3/M40/M50 class speakers which do sound a BIT closer to the PSBs than the mains which get paired with QS8s.

Again, this is just a guess. I have not heard QS4 vs. QS8 together and I don't know anyone who has... just extrapolating wildly from the Axiom "Epic" system lists.

For music I would expect the QS to be quite a bit better than the PSB dipoles.

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I've often heard that a normal bookshelf, such as the M3 or the PSB B15 would be preferable to a dipole speaker in this application.

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Is QS4 and 8 dipole or bipole?

Skerdi, all four of the drivers in the QSs operate in phase, so they're not dipolar, in which the opposing speakers are connected out-of-phase. Axiom uses the term "Quadpolar" to describe its four-way variation on the bipolar theme.

Thanks John! So I thougt.

John,

Thanks for the reply. He purchased the PSB S50s today, which are are a bipolar design. They better rock since he could have purchased 2 pairs of QS4s for what he paid for these.

HELP!! While I was looking around for surround possibilities for the boy, I happened to walk by a pair of PSB T45s. I thought to myself, 'man those sound darn nice,' and after I got home I started to think some evil thoughts. The most prevalent being, 'would these be an upgrade to my Axioms?' Now these small floorstanders are haunting me, giving me some urges. If the Mrs. finds out what is in my devilish little mind, there could be trouble. HELP ME!

The T45s are pretty much the elusive "M22 in a larger enclosure" that several people have wondered about, particularly after the demise of the M40. For pure music listening without a sub that would be a real nice speaker.

On the other hand, they would not play any more loudly or clearly than your M22s, and if you are using them with a sub there would not be a lot of practical difference since the M22s are nice and flat down to typical crossover frequencies. This last point is why Axiom didn't sell a lot of M40s -- for a music speaker they are fantastic but the big enclosure doesn't benefit you if you already have a sub.

I have not heard the latest PSBs but I did listen to the previous Image line (2T, 5T) before getting the Axioms. I didn't get a chance to directly A/B them but I did find the PSBs a bit bass heavy and midrange-light compared to the Axioms.

John,

I have heard the previous edition of the PSBs, since my boy has the 5ts, the 8c and now the s50s. I have listened to the 4ts before I went with the Axioms. I wasn't really impressed with them at the time. The sounded compressed and boxy to me. They didn't have image quality their name implies The t45s and t55s sound a lot better to me in comparison to the old 4t/5t line. The soundstage sounds wider open to me. If I had heard these first, I would probably be listening to them now instead of the Axioms. This is no way is meant to be a negative judgment on my Axiom setup. I think they are fine speakers and I am glad to have them. But...I'm itching to buy something right now. Maybe I've read too many of NeverHappy's posts.

Sounds like the new PSBs might be pretty good. I have not heard the new line but it sounds like we had similar impressions of the older Image models.

I guess the bigger question is "should you be replacing your mains, or is there some better way to spend the money when upgrading ?".

Do you have a good sub, for example ?

I have a JBL PB12 for a sub. I've been waiting for it to expire before I upgrade that part. I know it's not the ultimate, but it seems to work well in my environment. What I really want is a new TV. But, the Mrs. isn't going to go for that as long as the old Magnavox still turns on. Maybe I'll have to sabotage it in some way.

The usual trick is to gradually turn the brightess down and at the same time shift the tint to something nausea-inducing. Do it over a period of a few months.

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I'm itching to buy something right now. Maybe I've read too many of NeverHappy's posts.

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BUY BUY BUY BUY BUY

I'm starting to get serious about this. My son, whose opinion I trust came on over to listen to a SACD disc on my system. He told me that he likes my VP100 and QS8s, but he believes that the M22s are the weak link. He's told me this before and his insistence is starting to take it's toll.

You could try the 50s or 60s...

Oh yeah,

They are about the same price, aren't they. The reason I am tempted by the the T45s is that they are front ported, and I started to think that I could put them closer to the back wall, since I am limited for space.

I completely forgot you tried the 50s already. Do the 60s. Or the 80s. With Halos. Oooooh yeah.

I think this is all going to be decided for me shortly. I noticed a weird sound coming from the corner where my sub sits. It only happens just after I turn my receiver on and the sub starts up. I think maybe that JBL PB12 is showing signs of age. I am going to describe this sound as like 'someone sitting on a duck', or . . . 'a barking spider' type of sound. There, I kept it clean. All I know is that this is probably not a good sound and it gives me the giggles. So, my next acquisition will probably have to be a better quality subwoofer. I think.

...and that sub would be.....................??????

Well, I think I'll reply to me. It was a rather boring day, and the Mrs. wanted to take a trip to Old Navy and asked me if I wanted to go to a nearby B&M shop to have a peek at the subs. My journey was short lived and fruitless, since none of the subs I could find in the shop were hooked up to anything. I think I found one PSB and 2 B&Ws in the whole shop. I have a feeling the shop is leaning away from home audio, since the offerings in the listening room seems to be shrinking, buth they do stock many large screen TVs. Apparently, the plains folk aren't concerned with good sound, anymore. Major bummer.

I would think any of the major internet brands of subs would be a better choice for the money than what you would find in a b&m shop.

I had this insane idea that maybe I should actually buy something from a local audio shop to do my part to keep them in business. I miss the days of well stocked merchants with cool stuff to look at, play with the controls and all that jazz before you buy. I guess I am an old fart, afterall.

If you find a good shop, definitely... just don't get stuck buying overpriced junk if that's all they carry. I don't mind paying a premium for a dealer if they add value, but there are too many dealers around who... um... remove value if you know what I mean.