Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners I need help selecting a new system.

You are asking all the right questions. Getting into home theater is daunting because there is such a huge range of products and prices, from $200 including 5 speakers, sub and DVD player right up to tens of thousands of dollars. Maybe half of the systems are overpriced junk but half of them aren't... and the sound keeps getting better right up to the top of the range.

There are a lot of decent small systems (speakers + sub) in the $500 US range which will sound pretty good in either a small room or a small area of a large room (ie all the speakers are fairly close to the listener, not spread out around the room). The sub will have a tough time in the large room even if everything is close together, but if you don't play too loud that won't be a problem. Sound quality and clarity won't be fantastic but it won't be too bad either.

From that point you can go up in two directions -- bigger speakers that can handle the room with the same clarity, or higher quality small speakers. Both of these are going to be in the $1000 range; not sure either makes sense for you.

Next step up is to high quality full sized speakers (bookshelf or floorstanding) and the Axioms suddenly start to seem like really good value, sort of upper-middle-class performance at lower-middle-class pricing.

If we want to use "Axiom-class" speakers as a reference (say $2000), I would say you get perhaps 40% of the performance for 25% of the price ($500 systems), 70% of the performance for 50% of the price ($1000 systems) etc.., ie you still get more for your money by purchasing a considerably less expensive system. Nobody can beat that equation including Axiom.

Everyone has their own threshold where they say either "I think this is mighty fine; I could get better but why bother" or they say "I know this isn't perfect but it meets our needs for now and I don't feel like spending more now".

I have a lot of friends who are perfectly happy with their $500 system because it plays at the SPLs they need (moderate) in their room configuration (fairly small or intimate arrangement in a larger room) with the content they care about (95% movies plus a bit of background music). Some of them have $10000 invested in display & player plus $700 in speakers & electronics and that's right for them. I have $500 in display and player, $3000+ in speakers & electronics but for me the sound is the most important part of the experience.

If you are looking for high quality sound at "real movie" type sound levels then you are getting into the $1500 and up systems and Axiom is a very good competitor in that market. It really depends on where your own threshold is.

One of the terrible realities is that the room makes a huge difference in the quality of the sound you hear, so even auditioning in a variety of rooms isn't going to give you the whole story. What I can say is that there is a definite improvement as you go up the price range, something like :

$500 -- not super clear but OK; decent volume in a real small room, disappointing volume in a larger room

$1000 -- significantly better clarity OR ability to fill a larger room (but not both)

$1500 and up -- significantly better clarity AND ability to fill a larger room ($$ keep going up as your room gets bigger and your concept of "loud" gets louder ).

Wow thanks for all the input, it's so nice to hear from people who say things other than.

Get RoCkeT TykeS, they are da Bomb!!!

I'm glad to hear from everyone here that the difference between a $300 system and a $2000 home theatre is very noticeable. I've been reading alot on the net and after a while you get the feeling that people can get very picky. Many reviewers talk about how they missed audio in the X KHz range and I start thinking these guys are not like me. I think, either I'm going deaf or I can't descrimate sound properly.

The system I buy will follow several weeks of nothing but the in unit TV speakers (before I gave them away I had Wharfedale Modus 5's - I think). Ack! Maybe I am loosing hearing because every line sounds like mud.

Seriously though I appreciate all of your input and while I feel that bang for the buck Axiom are if not the very best out there than they are so close to the best that it doesn't matter.

Internet consensus agrees that Axiom is da Bomb.

The wife however does not. She likes Orbs. I'm sure I will as well. I think when I've got a real theatre in a real house I will revisit Axiom.

A couple more things, I love that axiom will do a custom finish. I can't believe other companies do not do the same, to expensive for me though. As for the DIY comment, perhaps I should have said that Axioms style is simple, straight forward, no nonsense serious hardware. I do not dislike the Axiom appearance, but I will freely admit I have a sweet spot for plastic whiz bangs, I did buy a YSP-1. I also own a Mazda RX8. Style over substance is character defect I've come to enjoy in myself.

The other factor is cost. I simply can't go half way with Axiom. I keep winding up with a cart containing:

FMSQS Stands
FMS24 Stands
Pair M2i Bookshelf Speaker
Pair QS4 Surrounds
VP150 Center
EP175 Powered Subwoofer

How did I get to $1952.25 and still no receiver or cables and what about a pair M50ti's ???

So I'm thinking I will probably wind up with orbs. They've gotten rave review in fact I've only come across one posting which was negative. The poster claim something about the speakers having no mid range. Other than that one post it's all praise.

Orbs are modular / upgradeable which is a big plus for me.

I can return them if I don't like them same as axiom, which is another huge plus.

I think the main thing is the WAF. "They are cute and little."

I don't want this to turn into an ad for another company in part because I'm a huge fan of companies like Axiom, they raise the bar for everyone. This board is an example of that, few other companies will allow this kind of posting for fear of bad word of mouth. It is a sign to me how good this company is that it even has a BBS where this discussion can take place.

If things don't work with the Orbs, Ill be buying from Axiom.

Thanks Everyone!

>>How did I get to $1952.25 and still no receiver or cables and what about a pair M50ti's ???

This is one of the compelling arguments for floorstanders -- once you include the cost of stands its only a couple of hundred extra for M50s. I don't suppose you could hang the QSs on the side or back walls ?

Took a look at the Orbs -- very sharp looking and reviews seem to be pretty good. Just one thought -- if you stay with the Orb 1 drivers then the system is probably going to be limited to filling part of your room; if you upgrade to Orb 2 center and mains then you're up over $1000 already.

I feel obligated to point out that for the same $1050 US you could get 5 Axiom M3s and a HSU STF-1, which IMO would outperform the Orb system by a considerable margin. Agree that WAF wouldn't be as high though and that is very important as well.

Anyways, doing the research is part of the fun and it looks like you're doing a good job. Enjoy and good luck !!

EDIT -- one other system to consider in the $750 range is the package that HSU is offering (http://hsuresearch.com) with the Ventriloquist speakers plus an STF_3 for $795. Again WAF would be lower but you would be getting one heck of a good subwoofer plus comparable sound to the Orbs... and with the big sub I don't think you would complain about the small speakers as much. Even the STF-2 package ($559 or something) would give you enough sub for the future so you wouldn't need to upgrade if you went to bigger & better speakers.

Just a thought...

I think most people, myself included, get into home theater in a evolutionary way. Meaning that we have built up our current systems over time, sometimes years.

The most important thing I try to explain to newbie's is that you need to buy equipment you can build upon. You don't want to have to scrap the system you have in order to move up to something better. This is the biggest problem I see with HTIB's. They usually have one integrated receiver that is junk, with some junky speakers. Where can you go from there? When you finally decide to upgrade, and most likely you will, you have to scrap the whole thing and start over.

In my case I bought a good receiver, Outlaw 1050, and some decent speakers, Paradigm Monitor 7's. I had a homemade sub, and center channel. Then I bought some cheap Boston Acoustics for surrounds. Then I upgraded to Axiom M80's, which also required a bigger amp. Then later got an Axiom center channel, then later an Outlaw sub, then later Axiom surround speakers. This evolution took about 5 years, Now I have a really nice system. I couldn't afford to do it all at once. And I didn't know enough about HT to do it correctly from the start. Learn more, upgrade, learn more upgrade, spreads out the investment. Eventually you get to a point where you say, this is good enough for me, I don't need to spend any more............. Until you hear something better and decide for yourself if it's worth the money to you, to make the improvement.

The point is you don't have to get there all at once. If you buy good equipment, you can build from it. If you buy junk, you will have to scrap it and start over. Not that Orb's are junk, I'm not familiar with them.

Well said. That's what I like about the Hsu system -- you're spending most of your $$ on the sub which will last you through several upgrades.

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one other system to consider in the $750 range is the package that HSU is offering (http://hsuresearch.com) with the Ventriloquist speakers plus an STF_3 for $795. Again WAF would be lower but you would be getting one heck of a good subwoofer plus comparable sound to the Orbs... and with the big sub I don't think you would complain about the small speakers as much. Even the STF-2 package ($559 or something) would give you enough sub for the future so you wouldn't need to upgrade if you went to bigger & better speakers.

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That system is very good for the money.I have one myself and can say that it will suprise most people with what it sounds like.Will it beat a full blown Axiom set up ?.......No it certainly will not but for a budget system it sure is pretty good imo.

Just to be clear, we're not picking on the Orbs, just giving you some options to help you decide what aspects are most important to you and "how good is good enough".

I actually like the Orbs myself; haven't had a chance to hear them but the reviews seem pretty good. What I like is that they have a lot of the same WAF as the Bose systems but both the satellites and the sub seem to offer better sound than the equivalent Bose.

It's a shame that you have to spend so much on stands (with any speaker, not just the Orb) to get that spiffy living room look.

Then again, it would almost be worth buying a basic Orb system just for the stands :

"HOSS (Hunk Of Solid Steel) floor stands are the ultimate complement to our Mod1 and Mod2 satellites. Seductively stylish, they are sure to look great in any room. HOSS is a stunning combination of stainless and carbon steel sourced from American mills. The base is a four inch diameter, three inch tall section of solid steel while the satellite support poles and all of the bracket parts are pure hand polished stainless. Each pair of stands contains nearly twenty-five pounds of steel, all of which is cut, polished and assembled by hand in the USA."

EDIT - of course for the cost of an Orb "People's Choice" system with 2 stands ($1298) you could get 2 M50s (don't need stands), 2 QS4s and an VP100 ($1273) then add the subwoofer later... it's really a question of how much pleasure you get from a great sounding HT system vs. how much pleasure you get from a happy wife.

I would vote for the happy wife any day

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I would vote for the happy wife any day

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I don't know about any day, they win enough as it is.Buy the biggest speakers you can afford then take what punishment there will be.They only stay mad for a while, a system is forever .

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I would vote for the happy wife any day

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My wife agrees with you
Wid, she say less flatering things about you

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Wow thanks for all the input, it's so nice to hear from people who say things other than... Get RoCkeT TykeS, they are da Bomb!!!

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g3t Ax10m m8oZ... Th3y r teh bomm!!!!!11111one!!!

Anyway, enough of that... you'll keep getting upsold by everyone, by salesmen who want to make more money off you, and by guys here that are just looking out for your best interest (and have been there - with blown budgets) I don't really recall anyone feeling rooked after blowing a budget on Axiom equipment. I was originally looking at Paradigms when I got highjacked by a mention of Axioms online (a head-to-head comparison from somewhere)... I vaguely knew the name, so I checked out the site, realized no one near me carried them and thought "not a chance I'm buying these sound-unheard" but this forum (mostly Alan) and a phone conversation with Brent really sold me. Glad they did and I'm not stuck with something just a step up from the HTIB experience.

By the way, I've heard the Hsu Ventriloquist series and, uh, well, Hsu makes good subs.

Bren R.