Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners A/V Receiver Upgrade?

Hey everyone, my first post here! Just wanted to get your opinions on whether I should upgrade my current A/V receiver, a Sony STRDE485, to something else. I bought it about two years ago on sale for $200 Cdn, and it has worked well with my Axiom M3Tis in my bedroom setup. However, I often feel like I am missing some power and clarity with this receiver. I feel like my M3Tis, which I am very happy with , are not being played to their full potential. They do sound musical, and the image is quite good, yet I find that they are not exceptional as other reviewers make them out to be. Will the speakers sound much better if say I purchased a Denon, Marantz, or another higher end receiver? I am willing to spend about $500 Cdn for new equipment. I am hoping for a significant improvement in sound if I do decide to upgrade.

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Axiom M3Ti
Sony STR-DE485
Panasonic DVD-RV32
QED Silver Anniversary Cable
Radioshack Evolution II Toslink Cable

2 channel system only?

I'd look into a stereo only receiver or integrated amp. Try looking at http://www.canuckaudiomart.com or http://www.audiogon.com for some used gear. Your $500 CAD will go much farther that way. No point in paying for seven channels of amplification if you're only going to be using two.

LK, welcome. Since you're using this in a(presumably fairly small)bedroom, it's highly unlikely that you're even using the 80 watt capacity of your 485, and since you're only using two channels, it's in fact coasting. If so, the distortion is inaudibly low and if there's a clarity problem it wouldn't have anything to do with the receiver. So no, spending more money on a replacement wouldn't improve the basic sound quality and wouldn't really be an "upgrade" in that respect.

Here's a couple to check out...

NAD C350 Integrated
NAD C352 Integrated
Rotel RA-1062 <-- I own this, and can attest that it's a winner!
another NAD C352

That should get you started.

I would say that if you're not sure the speakers are operating to their capability, make sure they're in the best positions possible and calibrated!

I also have two Athena ASB2s bookshelf speakers that I use for surrounds when watching movies. Saving up to get the Axiom VP100 center. So I use my system for 60% music / 40 % movies.

I am just curious if a better receiver will give me "better" sound. If I do get a new receiver I am hoping the sound is considerably better to be worth the upgrade!


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Axiom M3Ti
Sony STR-DE485
Panasonic DVD-RV32
QED Silver Anniversary Cable
Radioshack Evolution II Toslink Cable

I would suggest you take the money you have for a new receiver and use it to get your VP100.Nothing can improve the sound of a system as much as speakers.

Since you're looking for 5.1, completely disregard all my previous posts.

In my opinion, a receiver upgrade can give you a different sound. Better? That's up to you. (I've had receivers switched A/B and could hear a diference.)

I've always had good luck with Onkyo. Denon and H/K are also hightly touted on these boards.

I'm with Mark on this.
Speaker placement and position is sooooooo important.
I've played with different degrees of toe-in over the last year with my M60s and then one day I decided to try NO toe-in.
Although I've always thought my speakers sounded great, I was amazed at what an improvement this made. I can only explain it by saying the depth and the width of the sound increased two-fold.
Keep in mind though, every room is different.

There's no doubt placement must be played with. If you move them all over the place and find the very best spot, and still think something is missing, try buying a new receiver. If you look around, you'll likely be able to find a store that has a liberal return policy. That should give you the opportunity to bring it home, listen to it, and if it's not what you were hoping for, return it.

Good luck!

I doubt that even if receivers do change the sound that they're going to make a "significant" change. You could try a tube amp, though.

So you're saying its a different sound, not necessarily better? I thought that better components can give the speakers more transparency, image, and open up the soundstage. I mean, why is there such a big difference in price between receivers. Their prices can go upwards of $3000. Is my $200 receiver missing something compared to these?

I feel that with my system the M3Ti is not playing to its full potential. From all the rave reviews, I was expecting to be blown away by the sound. I have been very pleased with the speakers no doubt, but it falls short of phenomenal sound. Maybe I am expecting too much, or perhaps, I am too caught up in upgratitis mode. I do know that the M3Ti is limited in the lower range, so it doesn't sound "full".

Space is limited in the bedroom, its 10x10ft, so there is not much room for different placements. Currently the speakers are about 5ft apart. I had the system out in the living room for a while, and the sound did seem a bit better out there.

Is my money better spent on a subwoofer, or center perhaps than on the receiver? If so, can you give me some recommendations? Thanks for the replies.


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Axiom M3Ti (fronts)
Athena ASB2 (surrounds)
Sony STR-DE485
Panasonic DVD-RV32
QED Silver Anniversary Cable
Radioshack Evolution II Toslink Cable

If it were me I would spend the $$ on a sub or center.
Also try playing with the toe-in angles of your speakers.
Are your M3s on stands, wall mounts, or on a shelf?

They are on makeshift stands (i.e. plastic stools). Sometimes I put them on top of the Athena speakers when I am only listening to 2 channel stereo .

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Axiom M3Ti (fronts)
Athena ASB2 (surrounds)
Sony STR-DE485
Panasonic DVD-RV32
QED Silver Anniversary Cable
Radioshack Evolution II Toslink Cable

LK, as long as a receiver has adequate channel separation(i.e. all of them), there's no improvement in "image" or "soundstage" to be gained from a more expensive one. We read about these mysterious benefits on some audio boards, but there's no factual basis for this which holds up under blind listening tests.

In audio even where there are in fact audible differences, i.e. speakers, it apparently isn't enough to say that one is significantly better or is somewhat preferred, instead the difference has to be "huge", "night and day", "blows away" etc. So yes, possibly your expectations were too high, even for excellent speakers such as the M3s.

From what you describe, it may be that a small sub might be the wisest use of that money(besides more CDs and DVDs). One possible choice within your budget is the Outlaw LFM-2.

Well, with your guys advice, I have just tried playing around with the placement. I seem to have settled on putting the speakers as far apart as possible in the tight space, about 8 feet part as apposed to 5 feet before. Wow! From first impressions the sound is not only slightly better, it is a quite a bit better! The sound is suddenly wide, encompassing, more separated, and the image is sharper. I hope I am describing this correctly and making sense. Boy do I feel foolish now . I've had these setup for two years now, and didn't really bother too much with placement. I think I will play around with the placement a bit more and see if there is an even better one for my room. Thanks for the advice!

By the way, what is toe-in? I'm not familiar with that term.

I will look into adding a sub to my system. The Axiom subs are quite pricy, are they worth it?

LK, a common suggestion for speaker placement is to have them separated by about as much as your distance from them and to point them slightly inward("toe-in")so that the tweeters point at your ears.

The Outlaw LFM-2 is priced about right for me. How well does it match with the Axiom M3Tis?

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Axiom M3Ti (fronts)
Athena ASB2 (surrounds)
Sony STR-DE485
Panasonic DVD-RV32
QED Silver Anniversary Cable
Radioshack Evolution II Toslink Cable

Congrats on discovering the upgrade that's included with practically every speaker: repositionability. Changing a speaker's position in a room will change its sound much more significantly than powering it with a different amp or receiver.

Excellent news on the placement! Toe-in means aiming each speaker slightly towards the center of the room, as opposed to having both speakers aiming directly forward. Worth a try. (We're talking slight adjustments. An inch or two can make a significant difference in some rooms.

With a room your size I'd look real hard at a Hsu STF-1 or STF-2. I don't think you'll find a better sub deal in that price range. (The outlaw was designed by Dr. Hsu, why not buy the real deal?)

Although it seems like you may now have a good idea regarding speaker placement I ran across this nifty Sound & Vision article: 'Speaker Setup' and thought I would share. Enjoy!

Since we saved him $$$ on the receiver, doesn't he owe us a beer? Isn't that the way this forum works? Wink-wink, nudge-nudge?

In reply to:

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Since we saved him $$$ on the receiver, doesn't he owe us a beer? Isn't that the way this forum works? Wink-wink, nudge-nudge?

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That's the way it's been as long as I can remember...incentive!

Keep plaaying with speaker position. It "could" get bettter.

Where is the best site on the Internet to buy the Hsu STF-1? There seems to be several sites all selling the sub at $299 US. Don't know which site is reliable.

Ha, ha, thanks all. A round of beer on me!

Thanks! Great link, lots of nice tidbits that I sure could use. Very impressed by the quick response and helpfulness of this board so far.

Not to start anything as god knows we have been down this road before, but receivers in general do not all sound the same. Take it from a guy who has gone through more then his fair share..............they don't. Some do and as a matter of fact a lot of them do but not all of them and the notion that all receivers sound the same is complete hogwash.

I'd certainly buy mine from Dr. Hsu directly. You can even give them a call and see if they have any B-stock available. (Sometimes they do, but they never post them on their site)

Well, after weighing all the options I got the HSU STF-1 the other day! It is a good size for the bedroom, and I have it tucked in a corner. Disappears from sight.

From initial impressions, I have to say that the STF-1 does a very nice job of filling out the sound of the M3Tis. I am pleased by the richer, and deeper sound. I tested switching the sub on and off many times as I relistened to my music library. The sound is so much better with the sub on! Been playing around with the STF-1's bass volume as well, and it seems to be adequate with the dial set at the 10 - 11 o'clock position. For me this is just enough bass to be noticeable and fill out the sound, but also not too overwhelming.

In a couple months or so I might upgrade the receiver, but that will come after buying an Axiom center first! When it comes time to buy a new receiver I would sure like your opinions on a good one for about $500 Cdn. Anyways, I seem to be down the path to higher quality sound, and quite happy so far with my purchase. I'd like to give a big thanks to everyone who recommended the sub, and also for the replies to help me out with the decision process!

Glad we could help.

I must admit I feel a little guilty when I recommend a non-axiom product on these boards. But for what you were asking for, Axiom simply didn't have the right (or best) product to fill your needs.

I think knowing that the members of the Axiom boards are willing to offer up non-Axiom products when people ask for suggestions makes it a more powerful recommendation when we do suggest them. It helps give us credibility - proves we're not Axiom salespeople.