Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Anyone have complaints about the VP150 ?

I have recently upgraded my setup from my Denon 5800, to seperates. I have a HK 435 acting as a pre/pro and 3 Crown 402b for amps.

The sound is simply amazing for power, clarity, and sound stage. I could not be happier, however... I have to jump thru hoops becuase of how the center channel sounds. I just posted this under my other thread (EQ with epic 80) but I felt this needed it's own thread.

While calibrating using the AVIA disk, I notice during the front sweep (for timbre matching) the center sounds NOTHING like the M80s. It sound bright and tinny (if that is a word). At first I thought it was the HK in relation to the Denon.. and that might be contributing, but the other speakers sound great!

I think by pumping so much power thru this speaker.. I have really identified some flaws. I was amazed at how different it sounds than the other speakers, and truely disappointed.

Do you think something is wrong with this speaker? Is there another center I can get (besides Axiom) that will match better. How about getting an M22 or something?

Don't get me wrong.. I love my axioms. The QS8s and the M80s are simply amazing!

What do you guys think?


thanks,


Jim

Not sure if it matters in your case but could it be placement issues, is the 150 on a shelf, placed further back then the edge of the shelf. Maybe try moving it around a little.

Hey Jim,

There have been a few threads over the past year where members have asked similar questions about the VP150. I don't know, I like mine and can't relate to what your hearing. I can say that I've had to bump up the dB level on that channel as the AutoSetup had it to low and it was hard to hear the dialog over the rest of the speakers. Hope some others will chime in for ya.

Can you tell us a little bit about the placement of your VP150? Some have found that if they have it to far back, the sound bounces off the top of the TV and effects the sound. Also, do you have it inline with the tweeters on the 80's?

I think of all the speakers in Axiom's line, this is the one that gets most of the negative feedback, not sure why?

thanks guys for chiming in... I'm doing some reading on the boards of other threads and it is helping.

Here is a little more about my room setup.

I have my M80s on the floor on either end of my TV (Pioneer 730HDI), and the VP150 is on top of the TV. So it's about 4 feet higher than the tweeters of the fronts (which I read was correct placement for a center... > 3ft.)

I have it right at the front of the TV, slightly toed down. I'm going to try to move it around a bit... maybe toe it down a bit more. My family room is about 20x19, 2 stories... carpeted. I do have a coffee table in between my TV and my "sweet spot". But I would assume that would affect the fronts as it affects the center?

But have you guys done the timbre sweep of the fronts with AVIA or the like and not noticed a HUGE differnece in sound?

Again, i'm going to play with it a bit more. Normal listening, it sounds great.. very detailed. But when I'm watching a movie near reference levels.. there are times when it gets so harsh I have to turn it down becuase it makes me cringe! I never used to have to do that.

It could be the pairing with the amps or the HK as well. I think Denon is known to be a more laid back receiver. But again, i'm not expert... just relaying what i'm hearing!

thanks again for all the help!


Jim

What is your crossover point?

I've also noticed when doing the frequency sweeps on the Avia disc that the VP150 sounds nothing like the M22s. Would I characterize it as bright or tinny? Mmm, no, not really. I'm certainly not disappointed with the VP150, but in theory (noise sweeps) and in practice (movies, SACDs, DVD-Audio) I have noticed a difference.

I tend to reqard the measurements from Avia as just a guideline. Spend a little time tweaking to your taste and I think you'll find it blends well.

Does the 435 have the EQ setup like the 635 and if it does are you using it? Maybe turn it off and try it without the EQ?

Hey Lorenzo... the 435 does have the EQ, with it.. it sounds much better... without it... "out of the box" the center channel is unlistenable, sounds like they are all alien robots or something.

After using the EQ.. and the "tilt" to bring down the treble considerably.. it sounds much better.

I'm also playing with the placement per others suggestions and that is also making difference.

I'll keep you guys posted.

thanks,

Jim

Hello Jim,

I can't overemphasize the importance of placement on the sound of a center channel speaker, and how the timbre (tonal balance) of the center will change with often slight differences in location. By the way, you should always set the VP150 or VP100 to "Small" and use an 80-Hz crossover frequency in your setup menu.

When you use pink noise as a test signal, a center will never sound identical to your main left and right speakers. In most cases, the center sits on top of the video display or on a shelf beneath it. The adjacent surfaces--including the TV screen itself--add some coloration that you will hear with pink noise.

The goal is to experiment and find a place for the center where it's timbral balance is the best--where you aren't distracted during movies by any coloration on dialog or music and the blend with the mains is as seamless that your installation will allow. You may have to mount it to the wall with a bracket or try it on a short stand but I assure you, it's possible to get the VP100 or the VP150 sounding excellent.

You can read about my series of tests in the Axiom A/V Learning Center ("Fine-Tuning Center Channel Sound").

What's amazing about how room placement influences center channel tonality is you can take three identical speakers (in my case I used three M22ti's), which sound identical even with pink noise when placed in free space on stands side by side, then move one M22 above the TV, leaving the others on stands to either side, and the M22 on top of the TV will sound different.

Here is an excerpt from the aforementioned article:

"The lesson in all this is that if you detect noticeable tonal differences between your VP100 or VP150 and the main left and right speakers—and you find those differences audible or distracting—then it's time to experiment with placement. Try different locations, even sliding the speaker slightly to the left or right on top of the TV monitor, even if it isn't exactly symmetrical. Some Axiomites have found great success putting the center almost on the floor or on a short stand with the center angled up towards the listening area.

For improved coverage or use with a large screen and a front projector, try two center channel speakers, one above and one below the screen. That way, for most viewers, the two centers running in parallel will image the dialog in the center of the screen, rather than too far above or below the screen. This dual center-channel formation will also reduce the effect of the location on the tonal balance."

Regards,

I have not used that particular HK so I could be wrong but I've seen this type of compaint before....



Most receivers have tone controls, no big news there. But most of them only effect the front left/right channels and not the center and rears. My Nad was like this, and I couldn't get the sound from my center compared to the m80's that I wanted. The result was that the center sounded tin'y. With the yamaha, all channels are EQ'd, and when I use the tone controls, it effects the front left/right/center channels.

Check your manual, see if the center is effected via tone controls.