Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Monoblocks or Receiver

I'm having a hard time deciding on whether to go with 5 IRD monoblocks with a Rotel RSP-1006 preamp/pro or going with a Denon AVR-4802. Any ideas from you guys would surely help. Would the sound quality be much better with the monoblocks and Rotel over the Denon?

I have the 4802 now and love it. That said, I haven't compared it to a Rotel IRD combination so I couldn't tell you how the two compare to one another. I tend to doubt the veracity with which some claim monos improve sound. I wouldn't be surprised to find that the isolation does remove noise, but I wonder whether that fact is dramatic enough to make a really profound difference, especially on speakers in this price bracket.

For me, it came down to the fact that the 4802 has three high bandwidth component inputs and all the processing formats I could hope for. If you decide to go that route, I'd recommend the 4802R which is the same product at the same price with the addition of THX Ultra2. If it's free, you might as well have it.

i find the real significant avantages of having seperates are that whenever the is a new format or dsp, surround sound field (looks like they spit one out like with new cars) you can upgrade without changing the amps thus making it alot less expensive on the long run

That's why I've recently went the separates route. I have the Rotel RSP-1066/RB-1075 combo. Very happy with it. When DD-ES/DTS-EX goes the way of the dinosaur, I'll still be able to keep my amp, and just get a new processor.

You're certainly right, Johnny, but all he asked about was sound quality.

Curious, Semi-on, whether your most recent post was meant as a joke.

I've gone with outboard amps on my HT systems. Thought about monoblocks a while ago (Le Amps) ended up with a 5 channel Anthem PVA-5 and a vintage 2 channel Kenwood KA-9100 using an Onkyo 797 as a processor/preamp on the big system, and a pair of 2 channel Onkyo M282 105 wpc (into 8ohms) amps using a Sony STRDB1070 as an amp for the center channel and a preamp/processor for the rest.

Definitely more musical and more at ease during demanding portions of movies. I'd say that going to 5 or 7 monoblocks would guaranty that you'd never be short of power for the even most demanding passages.

sure.. but i should elaborate a bit then,
as for sound quality i've seen quite some real nice big setups (up to $200,000.00)in the pas few years and taking in mind that all setups have different variables such as room size & proper installations, i've notice the following ... that there is a very small maraginable gain in sound quality in seperates, and that the quality of decent hi-mid end, all in the box amps such as a denon avr4802 (the one i currenty own)and denon 5803, HK-8000, and so on, are so very close to separates, and that the money involved in going the separates route would have to be one of upgradabily, for sure in 10 years those monoblocks will be outdated, as the quality of sound will improve in time, just like cars,computers and so on.... (is a 10 year old Beamer with some millage better than a brand spanking new maxima ......hummmmm)

if you decide to go with seperates,do your homework on how much power they will require, you may want to have a dedicated electrical circut or two just for your system,depending on the draw......ron

just to give you an idea... look at this... http://www.audiorevolution.com/news/0203/25.omega.shtml
very hi-end amps made in Montreal, Canada

or even better this is the official web site ... http://www.classeaudio.com/

Jason, your basic question was about sound quality. There's no reason for competently engineered receivers or separates operating within their power limits to audibly change the sound of your recordings, speakers and listening room. Features and flexibility for the future may be reasons to consider separates, but sound quality isn't.

I would have to entirly disagree with you on that point.
i'm really positive that differences donot only remain on features and power ratings, however the answer to his original question remains unanswered, does a particular gear have any "sound quality" differences over an other particular gear.

In reply to:

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his original question remains unanswered, does a particular gear have any "sound quality" differences over an other particular gear

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Actually jasonf's original question was:
Would the sound quality be much better with the monoblocks and Rotel over the Denon?
The only person who can answer that question IS jasonf.

Otherwise all you can do is debate whether the separates have any advantages/disadvantages in regards to features compared to integrated components which is exactly where this thread went.

This is again a very subjective and personal view so again always take my opinion with a grain of salt. I personally have listened to my speakers with Krell KAV separates Integrated and AMP @ 250w per channel and compared them against my Rotel RSP-1065 5 x 100 receiver.
To my ear what I found in MY regular stereo music listening levels 50-80db it was hard to decern the difference. My mind thought the Krell had a little more detail. That was it. The soundstage seemed equally as big and deep. In the lower listening levels I could discern that the Krell had more detail. Why? I do not know. Maybe the Rotel 1065 (which isn't a slouch) did not process low level sounds as well. When I turned the Rotel up to the higher levels it did seem the receiver was definitely working hard. My volume level was cranked up to like 68+ something. I never recorded the actual db on the spl. The Krell at those levels presented the sound with greater efficiency and I do not think the amp was anywhere as hot as the ROtel. This is the reason why I have also been looking at the IRD monoblocks. Again I am not looking into theses monoblocks for the sake of getting a better sound. I am looking into them due to the fact that in DTS or DD mode I have my volume up to 70+ and I think I am working the 1065. By having separate power to each speakers it would let the receiver work less. Since the canadian dollar is high, purchasing the IRD monoblock seem like a great deal. Also I can easily see that my current speakers are not as efficient as the Axioms and the Monitor Audio speakers (I used to have the Silver S6)

Saturn

hey rcvecc;

Do you think I would need a separate electrical circuit for my system? I have the Tripp Lite LC2400 and it supposedly pushes as much as 2400W continuous. If I drain as much as than from any standard electrical socket in my living room should I worry?

Most 'standard' outlets are on a 15 amp circuit, so 2400W continous would trip the breaker. However, you're unlikely to draw that much power on average. All my gear in the family room is on one 15 amp circuit, and I haven't tripped the breaker. Sony WEGA TV, Sunfire Ultimate Receiver, Sunfire True Subwoofer Signature, Axiom M80ti mains, Axiom VP150 center, three Axiom QS8 surrounds, VCR, DVD player, ReplayTV box, DirecTV HDTV receiver, two HTPCs (one P4 1.8GHz, one EPIA M9000), wireless ethernet hub, wired 8-port 10/100 ethernet switch, Sony Playstation2.

I hope I don't trip it when I get my 3 x IRD monoblocks to power the front which is 400W each.
Today that Tripp Lite is powering

Rotel RSX1065 550W
Marantz SE67 Cd player
Malata DV520 DVD/Kareoke
Panny VCR
HTPC 200W
Infocus X1 Projector
PMC DB1
PMC TB2 center
Axiom M3TI
Mirage Bi-Polar 150 Subwoofer
Sony G400 19" CRT
BenQ 17" LCD
Dell laptop
2 other network PC and servers
Altec Lansing sattelite and woofer speakers
fishtank pump, heater and air pump
notorios Halogen lamp - used to flip the circuit breaker before the Tripp Lite
clothes iron which my fiancee occasionally plugs in to a power bar attached to the Trip Lite
a vacuum cleaner which is also plug into that power bar on the weekends.

You think I'm heading towards a disaster? And my hydro is included in the maintenance so I'm safe for the time being.

Saturn

Heh-heh... Let's not forget that a well-engineered monoblocks and separates (including the IRD) are BEAUTIFUL inside, even if it has nothing to do with the sound quality.

hey saturn,i honestly can not answer your question,i had three circuts installed behind my system because i took a total of amps my system would draw at peak and over did them a little for future upgrades ,total amps were around 26 at peak,so i figured better safe than sorry

You're begging to trip the breaker, yes, especially if your vacuum is a modern high-powered unit. Even a 20 amp circult is probably borderline.

If it were me, I'd move the halogen lamp, the computers and the fisk tank gear to a separate 15 amp circuit, and buy a small UPS (say 1000VA) for the computers and fish tank. Then you can plug the iron and vacuum into this circuit; if the breaker trips, your computers will run for a while from UPS, and if they're sleeping, your aquarium gear will keep running for a long time (probably hours). Handy if an electrical storm trips a breaker or GFCI while you're at work or sleeping.

Here's a tip... if you want to know what you're drawing, pick up a line conditioner that has a built-in ammeter. I have a few in my computer and music racks, my favorites (for value) are the ART PS 4x4. $99.99 from samash.com. 8 outlets, retractable rack lighting with dimmer and on/off switch, built-in 15A breaker and front-panel on/off switch, analog voltmeter (input) and ammeter on front. You can get much nicer ones (sequencing, etc.), but they cost more.

See I have a big concern now not about the sound quality, but if my apartment can handle the 5 IRD's in terms of power. I've more or less cancelled out the Denon and am now considering either the 5 IRD's or the Rotel RMB-1075 5 channel amp in conjunction with the Rotel 1066 pre/pro.

Jason, whatever amp you decide to get, it isn't in control, you are. Your speakers use whatever power they need at the moment for the volume level you've set, which is about 1 watt most of the time, with maybe 100 watts or so momentarily on peaks. So, the amps you're considering have more maximum power capability then you'd probably ever need in an apartment, but there's nothing about the apartment "handling" the power, it just wouldn't be used. If in the future you were in a much larger listening room and playing at louder levels, then more of that power would be used.