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#122240 - 12/29/05 01:10 PM home setup
LucRaymond Offline
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Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 310
Loc: montreal,qc,canada
Here are 3 shots of my living room






Toshiba 42" TV
Yamaha 7.1 receiver with 8 speakers setup

2 front M22TI / center AXIOM / subwoofer (PSB)/ 2 back AXIOM AX 1.5 / 2 surround back (behind couch) AIWA

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#122241 - 12/29/05 01:16 PM Re: home setup
danmagicman7 Offline
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Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 1467
Sweet man. Are those m22's in the back as well?

I would experiment movie the m22's a little away from the wall (The ones on the stands in front) and you might get tighter bass response. The port in the back looks like it is a bit close to the wall.
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#122242 - 12/29/05 01:26 PM Re: home setup
spiffnme Offline
axiomite

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 5233
Loc: Los Angeles
Looks great!

I agree with the idea of moving the M22's. One or two inches can make a considerable difference. I'd pull your M22's right to the front edge of those shelves. You should hear a nice increase in bass response.


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#122243 - 12/29/05 02:07 PM Re: home setup
LucRaymond Offline
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Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 310
Loc: montreal,qc,canada
I have AXIOM AX1.5 in the back, it's the generation before the M3TI. I bought them 10+ years ago at the time AXIOM were selling speakers in retail stores.

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#122244 - 12/29/05 02:22 PM Re: home setup
LucRaymond Offline
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Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 310
Loc: montreal,qc,canada
I'm dumb, I tought the speakers needed to be close to the wall for good bass.

I moved them as far as i can, but thoses speakers are not really rocking the house with the bass.

I guess I should have ordered a pair of m60ti. I have a great sub but my girlfriend doesnt like it very much. As soon as I turn my back, she turn off the sub! I'm only using it for movies.

I'm thinking about replacing my AX1.5 with a pair of QS4 or QS8. I have problems hearing my back speakers correctly. I didnt wanted to put them on a floor stand since my space is limited. I placed them on shelves but since the couch is below the sound is not going in the right direction. And when I sit on the chair (which was not visible in the pictures) I dont get very much of the rear audio.

The surround back which are behind the couch are not really effective. It's an old pair of AIWA speakers taken on an old 10y+ radio.

If i order a pair a QS, I may try to replace them with the AX1.5 and if I still have the same results, I will remove them.



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#122245 - 12/29/05 02:22 PM Re: home setup
SirQuack Offline
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Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13581
Loc: Iowa
Have you tried standing the rear AX1.5's vertically? It appears they are pointing upwards slightly, you may get a better experience that way.

Randy

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#122246 - 12/29/05 02:30 PM Re: home setup
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 6193
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
>>I guess I should have ordered a pair of m60ti. I have a great sub but my girlfriend doesnt like it very much.

My parents work pretty much the same way. I finally convinced my father that a sub turned down (by him) was better than a sub turned off (by my mother). Just a thought

>>I'm dumb, I tought the speakers needed to be close to the wall for good bass.
>>I moved them as far as i can, but thoses speakers are not really rocking the house with the bass.

You are correct -- you will generally get *more* bass with the speakers closer to the corner (unless they are so close that the rear ports are not working as well as they could), but you will usually get cleaner, tighter bass by moving them a bit further away from the wall. Make sure you have the back of the speakers at least a few inches away from the wall or you may start to lose bass again.

Having said all that, the M22s are not known for thundering bass but with a good sub you don't care anyways. I would check the sub level relative to the mains -- even if you like the sub turned up a few dB for movies I would STRONGLY suggest turning it back down for music to avoid girlfriend problems. If you find the right setting everyone will be happy.


Edited by bridgman (12/29/05 02:35 PM)
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#122247 - 12/29/05 02:39 PM Re: home setup
LucRaymond Offline
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Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 310
Loc: montreal,qc,canada
yes , they were in vertical position for 2 years and yes they do point upward
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#122248 - 12/29/05 02:51 PM Re: home setup
spiffnme Offline
axiomite

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 5233
Loc: Los Angeles
I think there's a fine line to find the sweet spot for optimal bass, in regards to how close to the wall it should be. Too close is going to muffle it, too far is going to lose the wall's reinforcement.

I know you don't have a lot of room on those shelves, but I'd play around with the spacing and see which gives you the best result.

What sub do you have? Properly calibrated it shouldn't sound like you have a sub at all. It should simply sound like your little M22's are full range speakers. Boomy bass is really annoying. If you have a sound level meter, be sure to set your sub properly. If not, it'll keep getting mysteriously switched off.


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#122249 - 12/29/05 03:07 PM Re: home setup
LucRaymond Offline
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Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 310
Loc: montreal,qc,canada
yeah, I will try with the sub lowered down.. My subwoofer crossover was set incorrectly and the volume was higher than normal! :-)


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#122250 - 12/29/05 03:12 PM Re: home setup
LucRaymond Offline
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Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 310
Loc: montreal,qc,canada
<<What sub do you have? Properly calibrated it shouldn't <<sound like you have a sub at all. It should simply sound <<like your little M22's are full range speakers.

usually when my sub is on, you swear Godzilla is around! :-)
I admit that my sub was set a little bit over the limit (but man do I love when it shakes the room)

<<Boomy bass is really annoying. If you have a sound level <<meter

I need one of those, I'm sure that my speakers are not calibrated correctly. I know, i did it myself! :-)


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#122251 - 12/29/05 03:15 PM Re: home setup
spiffnme Offline
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Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 5233
Loc: Los Angeles
Properly calibrated, the sub can and will shake the house, but only when it's supposed to. And even then, it should sound like it's your entire system putting out that big bass sound, not the sub alone.


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#122252 - 12/29/05 03:20 PM Re: home setup
LucRaymond Offline
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Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 310
Loc: montreal,qc,canada
since my taste are not a reference, how should I tune my system?

my speakers are set to small, but I gave a boost to each speakers (dont recall the precise decibel setting, since it's different for each speakers).

I have a crossover setting on my sub which is now set to 80hz

On my amp, the crossover is now at 60hz.


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#122253 - 12/29/05 03:32 PM Re: home setup
SirQuack Offline
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Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13581
Loc: Iowa
If your setting the crossover on your Amp/AVR, then you want to turn the crossover setting on the Sub all the way clockwise to get it out of the way, and let the receiver manage the crossover. I would say use 80 on the Amp, that is a good rule of thumb and follows THX standards.
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#122254 - 12/29/05 06:02 PM Re: home setup
LucRaymond Offline
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Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 310
Loc: montreal,qc,canada
thanks a lot guys
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#122255 - 12/29/05 10:16 PM Re: home setup
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 6193
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
>>since my taste are not a reference, how should I tune my system?

Play music or movie your girlfriend likes, turn the sub off, and ask her to set the sub level by turning the volume *up* until it sounds right. That should be good for a couple of dB higher than you would ever get setting it yourself
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#122256 - 12/30/05 12:45 AM Re: home setup
danmagicman7 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 1467
I actually would recommend a setting of 100 for the M22's. I have them and found that it is the best. At 80 the bass seems to drop off a bit too much. 100 is perfect. Set it at 100 and slowly, I mean slowly, inch your sub up until it mixes well with the speakers.
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#122257 - 12/30/05 07:09 AM Re: home setup
LucRaymond Offline
devotee

Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 310
Loc: montreal,qc,canada
suggestion noted, I will try that.

But is this value, the level at which the sub take over? like the sub will play anything below 100hz?


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M80,M60,M22,AX1.5,VP180,VP150,VP100,AX1.2,QS8
Emotiva XPA5,UPA2. Pio VSX33 & VSX32

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#122258 - 12/30/05 10:40 AM Re: home setup
St_PatGuy Offline
axiomite

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7463
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
It is a gradual mixing at the crossover point. It's not like the speaker cuts out at 80Hz and then the sub plays, but more like an overlap to help blend the sound.

Also, the higher the crossover point, the more you're ears are able to locate the sub. Not necessarily a good thing. Play with the crossover and listen to the same song over and over and see how the sound changes.
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#122259 - 12/30/05 10:43 AM Re: home setup
SirQuack Offline
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Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13581
Loc: Iowa
I agree with St PatGuy, you do not want the sub to be localized. I would recommend not going over 80hz.
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#122260 - 12/30/05 10:56 AM Re: home setup
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6790
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
I would also suggest the 80Hz crossover, the lower you can set it the less likely localization will be an issue.
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#122261 - 12/30/05 05:39 PM Re: home setup
spiffnme Offline
axiomite

Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 5233
Loc: Los Angeles
I too think anything over 80hz is too high for a sub crossover. Just my opinion though.


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#122262 - 12/30/05 09:55 PM Re: home setup
LucRaymond Offline
devotee

Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 310
Loc: montreal,qc,canada
I've set my system to 80hz, and lowered my sub. I tought that I lived 24h with my sub open yesterday, but when I went to check it, it was off (damned GF!!). I lowered it and turn it back on, I'm now in the first 12hours of sub usage (without any remarks). I'm curious how long it will last this time. I must have set the volume to zero, I can't believe it was on for 12 hours.


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M80,M60,M22,AX1.5,VP180,VP150,VP100,AX1.2,QS8
Emotiva XPA5,UPA2. Pio VSX33 & VSX32

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#122263 - 12/30/05 10:42 PM Re: home setup
danmagicman7 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/16/05
Posts: 1467
Why would you say an 80 Hz crossover is the highest one should go?

Do you guys have M22's?

100 Hz sounds much fuller to me.
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#122264 - 12/30/05 10:48 PM Re: home setup
pmbuko Offline
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Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16437
Loc: Ben Lomond, California
The one caveat everyone should add to their posts is "do what sounds best to you." If you prefer 100Hz, then use it.
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#122265 - 01/02/06 03:38 AM Re: home setup
nitram Offline
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Registered: 04/09/03
Posts: 57
Loc: Santa Rosa, California
I had my x-over at 150Hz for a while, and I thought it had more 3-D sound than at 100Hz. I think there was something going on with the speaker placement: the "mains" are M3Tis in the top corners of the room. Since I put in a parametric equalizer to get reduce room resonances from the sub, I've kept the x-over at 100Hz, because of some stuff to do with the PE I won't go into here, but I'm happy with this too.

I think this "bass localization" thing will make such a subtle difference at these lower frequencies (150 Hz and below) that you won't care unless you're trying to find it. Bass sound sources usually aren't pure, so the overtones will localize the drum or the bass guitar more than the sub tones.

Trust your ears. Assume that if you try hard enough you'll find something wrong with your system. But enjoy the positive.

Good luck,

--Martin

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