Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler Photography advice

Hey Tom:
Sorry about the late response.... I was gone this weekend.

I would agree with everyone else regarding a digital SLR... though you didn't mention budget. How big is your room? Will this be for movies or music? What type of music do you.....ummmmm....crap. Hold on. More coffee.

If your budget allows it, the Canon Rebel XT or Nikon D50 or D70 would be my choice. Of course, they're not inexpensive as snapshot cameras.

I'll also reiterate that size does matter. Sometimes having a small camera that slips in your shirt pocket means not missing shots..... but it'll mean "less capability and my fingers are too damn big for these little menu buttons" to other people. See what's comfortable at a B&M.

There are several factors that'll help with "sports photography" if that's your singular goal:

Any camera will likely automatically increase the ISO (I STILL want to say ASA!) when the situation warrants it....such as when shooting sports or under lower light situations. This means that the camera, not receiving enough light because of ambient conditions or because of a short shutter speed, will "boost" the output of the sensor chip. This can be done well or poorly depending upon the quality of the chip and the electronics/software algorithm.

A big factor in the number of missed shots will be the speed and accuracy of auto-focusing. As would be expected, the more expensive cameras are, by and large, MUCH faster at "locking in" on a focus (even on a moving subject) than the less expensive models.

Oooops- I'm running a bit short on time here this morning, Tom! I can write more later (I'll let you digest this part) or, you can feel free to call me. My schedule today will open up after 11AM EST or so….!

Mark and other kind, patient souls -

Thank you. My wife didn't give me a budget yet. There WILL be one, I'm sure. It is possible that the expense of competently doing this task well will prevent us from doing anything.

I did some reading on the Nikon D50 and the Canon Rebel XT. They seem to be the right idea. The Nikon D70 is considerably more expensive - why?

Should I be concerned about the D50 being "only" 6.0 megapixels?

It seems like the Nikon lenses are somewhat more affordable than Canon lenses. Should I even consider lenses by companies like Sigma or Tamron?

How zoomy do I need to be? There is a kit at Abe's of Maine that has the D50, and 18-55mm and 55-200mm Nikkor lenses for about $750. Will that much lens get me - for instance - a person filling a frame from about 75 feet? Or do I need one of those too expensive howitzer lens things that Dennis Rodman kicks on TV?

I guess I need many massive memory modules, too. And probably an extra battery. And filters. Is Abe's the sort of place I should be shopping? Where else?

And thereby went the HDTV budget.

Thanks again.

I wanted to know which Canon do you guys like in the powershot line. Originally I was going to get the Rebel XT but I think that camera is overkill for me.

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Should I be concerned about the D50 being "only" 6.0 megapixels?

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No….. unless you're planning on making big, honkin' 16x20s!

The megapixel race is coming to end. There really is sufficient resolution in a six megapixel camera for almost anyone short of pros or advanced amateurs.

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Should I even consider lenses by companies like Sigma or Tamron?

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Definitely. Add Tokina to the list as well. In my opinion, the lenses made by the camera manufacturers are really only best suited for professionals and a few advanced amateurs. The better lenses from the independent manufacturers (there are often a few "lines" within a manufacturers' line) typically offer 95-100% of the quality of the camera manufacturer's lenses at 50% of the price. Economies of scale; Sigma and Tokina can sell cross-platform while the Canons and Nikons cannot, offering them 2~4X the total sales per lens design.

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How zoomy do I need to be? There is a kit at Abe's of Maine that has the D50, and 18-55mm and 55-200mm Nikkor lenses for about $750. Will that much lens get me - for instance - a person filling a frame from about 75 feet? Or do I need one of those too expensive howitzer lens things that Dennis Rodman kicks on TV?

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If Rodman even did that to one of my lenses, I'd rip one of his piercings out. Then I'd run like hell, crying like a little girl.

I would be looking for a lens such as this Sigma. It'll do well for you at 75'. One of the major benefits of buying a more expensive lens (within a manufacturer's line) is getting a 'faster' lens. This primarily means the lens lets more light through it, so you can get the proper exposure with a faster shutter speed. The faster lens also makes for easier focusing in low-light. But, a faster lens is generally much larger and heavier in addition to being more expensive. Really, it's a matter of weighing your needs.

I wouldn't recommend Abe's…. I've been reading of troubles with them for 25 years. Instead, I'd recommend B&H for excellent reliability AND prices! Newegg is worth checking out for some of the stuff, too.

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I guess I need many massive memory modules, too. And probably an extra battery. And filters. Is Abe's the sort of place I should be shopping? Where else?

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Memory is getting cheap when you keep your eye out for sales. Another battery for the Canon will cost about $30; not sure about the Nikons. I'd hold off on filters for now.

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It seems like the Nikon lenses are somewhat more affordable than Canon lenses. Should I even consider lenses by companies like Sigma or Tamron?

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3rd party lenses are often the best way to go unless you're shooting for National Geographic spreads... I have a few Nikkor and Tamron lenses for my 35mms. For most things, they're nearly identical.

As for "only" 6 megapixel, that'll get you a pretty good 8x10... better than APS, and maybe a smidge softer than 35mm.

Another thing you haven't mentioned (or I breezed through) was flash... onboard pop up flashes are there for looks and a little assist now and then. You may find that in a "dark" (it looks like to you but not to the CCD in your camera) swimming pool, that without a dedicated flash, you'll either be shooting at hideously low shutter speeds ("this smear on the left is my daughter") or the camera will "gain up" by multiplying voltage from the CCD, which gets grainy in the luminence and noisy in the colour channels ("this speckled multicolour blob over here is my daughter")

Bren R.

Mark and Bren, thank you very much.

I really appreciate not only your time, but also your ability to explain this stuff to me in a way I understand without making me feel like The VIllage Idiot.

I've always had good luck with Canon products. I've read reviews of the D50 and the Canon; they both seem very highly regarded. I guess I need to go and hold them. Maybe smoke a cigarette afterwards. Are there good reasons for me to NOT like the Nikon? It is less expensive.

I've read widely varying reports about the importance of a lens focusing quickly. Any comments?

I notice that there are about three different flavors of Sigma Zoom Telephoto 70-300mm f/4-5.6 DG Macro Autofocus Lenses at B&H (DG, APO and APO DG). What the heck?

If I get something like that, would I also want to have another lens for general purpose use? I've read mixed reviews about the "kit lenses" that come stock with both of those cameras, with some people suggesting to just get a body and an 18-70mm lens instead of the standard one.

As to the blob/blur pool thing, flashes are a non-issue. I simply can't use them, so will have to do my best with whatever light and technology is available. Part of what is driving me on this project is that we really have an excellent club, but we lost the one coach who was at all inclined to capture photographic evidence of the excellence. Plus, it's a new toy with buttons that I don't have.

Thank you again for so patiently suffering my dumb questions.

I forgot one other thing - sometimes I see references to "faster" SD or CF memory cards. Is that something I should pay any attention to? Do I care deeply about the format if I have no significant prior investment?

The faster SD cards can write data faster. You'll want one if you're taking many high-res shots in rapid succession -- which is common in sports photography. You don't want your camera's image buffer to fill up because it's waiting to dump data to the card and then miss a good shot.

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If I get something like that, would I also want to have another lens for general purpose use? I've read mixed reviews about the "kit lenses" that come stock with both of those cameras, with some people suggesting to just get a body and an 18-70mm lens instead of the standard one.

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I actually think the kit lenses you describe are pretty darn good. Sure there are better ones out there. But I think that line of thinking mostly comes from people who are looking for a single lens that will work for any possible shot. Of course, that lens just doesn't exist. The key here is that photography is a complex subject (much like speaker design, I'm sure), but I find it’s a rewarding one.

My suggestion is just to purchase a good digital camera so that you can take lots of pictures and get instant feedback on how you’re doing without worrying about wasting film. Either the Canon or Nikon will serve you well here. My main reason for choosing Canon was their impressive variety of lenses. The main investment in this hobby isn’t the camera, but the lenses. Still, Nikon has great stuff as well; go with what feels good in your hand. The Rebel XT fit that bill for me. It might also be a good idea to just get one lens with the camera and a good photography book. Spend some time figuring out how changing the various settings like aperture, white balance, and shutter speed affect the shot. This will go a long ways towards teaching you what you should look for in your next lens.

Also, to get really good action shots in mediocre light conditions takes really big lenses. Watch the sidelines at a NFL game sometime. Those guys are holding on to some pretty serious pieces of glass!

One final thought, I was recently getting my picture taken for a work thing, and they brought in a professional photographer. I asked him what sort of equipment you need to take great photographs. He replied, “An art degree.” Wise words indeed.

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I'd recommend B&H for excellent reliability AND prices!

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I'll second that recommendation. I've bought a few things from them and have always been satisfied.