Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS DEBATE QUESTION

And, "over the top he goes!"

In reply to:

---

Lastly, from what I can see, the majority of these 'NEW" immigrants just want to be able to come, and go as they please, and work, and live where they choose....they don't WANT to be citizens of this country. (unless we say they have to leave).
They ARE NOT INTERESTED in our culture, or customs.

---

That is likely the case with the first generation of immigrants -- the same as was the case with practically ALL first generation immigrants. To single out the current wave as unique from all the past generations is being willfully ignorant.

Both my parents were not born in the United States. They entered the country as youths when their parents (my grandparents) came to the US to escape the "unfavorable" conditions in Eastern Europe. My grandparents do speak English, but I wouldn't say they've become Americanized. In fact, they often complain about American culture.

Now, I, the child of two immigrants, am decidely American. It's the children of immigrants, and their subsequent children, that make up the majority of the US population. It's human nature to look fondly upon the culture in which you grew up and spent most your life.

Ummm, nice Godwin there, Bren.

I'm over the top?

Quick rundown of the messages here:
LT61 - If we make these immigrants legal, who will do their jobs. (A call to keep a group of people in the margins so they'll keep doing gruntwork for little pay)

nickbuol - I'd work for $50 an hour, oh, and a shout out to my Democrat friends, no hate! (no, the quote was you'd have to FINISH a season... try to find someone that would!)

JaimeG - if the economy tanks, we may need these jobs held open for legals (again, keep the illegals in the margins doing it until a "real" American needs the job)

rcvecc - I'm assuming was a joke.

VikingShips - talks about baby boomers, then puts in a line to contact him about his future plan (Amway? HerbalLife?)

INANE - wants a secure border, and a way for immigrants to become legal (Ben's from the heartland and so far has had the most progressive answer yet? I may have to rethink my views!)

BrenR - boomer rant.

LT61 - Immigrant exploitation. Not love for the US, just a chance at a job. (no far so good) Stay out of my country and fix your own. You gotta live like an American to be an American (well, you WERE doing well)

HomeDad - patriotic quote from a dead president when such xenophobic rantings were considered okay. (back when you could hang a sign that said "No Blacks" in your establishment, is this really relevant today? Sad part is, it is. Even contains the words Liberty, Flag, and Allegiance... put all that on a triple word score! This is pretty much a manifesto for the melting pot culture - drop whoever you were to be an American, your culture stops at our border)

BrenR - I point out the similarities between two well-known historical figures in an attempt at showing that maybe what "Ol' Hickory" spewed past his walrus-stache may have been proven 30 years later to be a pretty awful way to run a country.

And yet you look past all the winking and nudging that maybe it's not so bad to have Mexicans dying from pesticides picking strawberries at slave wages so "real" Americans don't have to... and pick on me for daring to mention the "Big A"... would it be better if I'd picked Mussolini's "All within the state. Nothing outside the state. Nothing against the state."? Is it just that the German guy with the bad mustache is such a lightning rod? Too easy?

Bren R.

In reply to:

---

Ummm, nice Godwin there, Bren.

---

Never heard the term before. I stand behind my use of a historical figure immediately recognizable as the worst case scenario of what national pride, patriotism and umbrage towards others besides their own leads to.

I'd take the moniker if I'd spouted "OmGz!!12! US is Hilter!!11one!!"

Bren R.

Bren, posting a quote because it is interesting is not analogous to agreeing with said quote.
Like many Americans I am of mixed culture, from my great granparents fleeing a country whose dictator did not allow the freedoms they could enjoy in this country, my wife is a mixed first generation and our kids are basically a mix of everything.
We are all Americans and proud of it, but we also enjoy the mixed diversity and freedoms that this country still offers.
Perhaps that may change in the future, better or worse I don't know.

Time to re-read my first post Bren,....I was simply showing the flaw in the logic of those who believe that rubbish.

Also, you forgot your usual "rednecks" references.

Actually " Ol Hickory" was Andrew Jackson's nickname not Roosevelt.

This is a touchy subject indeed, at one time pretty much everyone in the US was an immigrant and escaping from something somewhere to look for a better life. Now life has become a lot more complicated. I can see both sides of the fence and frankly it's difficult to decide where to stand.

the key word here is illegal,breaking the law from day 1 of your arrival and working for cash,sending it back to their countries hurts our country,so if i have to live by the rules-so should they
i have no problem with any race or color but this country has laws to follow ,and if you dont like them or follow them,then you should face the judge like everyone else
and if the laws and rules are so bad..then why do they come?

So in each case, neither of you were agreeing with what you quoted?

Again, hard to tell when someone is giving a quote without bias on one side or the other of it or when they're just too cowardly to take responsibility for what they're saying. (to be clear here, HomeDad, I'm putting you in the former camp) (edit: and LT61 - in neither camp on this issue, I should be clear on that!)

And LT61 - no need for the word redneck... there was no "my country, right or wrong", mention of Nascar as a national sport or talk of guns, gas and god. Easy on how you paint me... thinking me a pinko doing chainsaw surgery is vastly underestimating me.

Bren R.