Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater m22

Yesterday, I just came back from business trip and decided to have some serious audio audition of my setup. I turned off my sub, try to find a good radio station on my digital cable box and turned up the sound. I feel there is no bass coming out my babies. It's really sad. When you crank up the volume you at least hope to have some clean punchy bass but I don't have anything.



My receiver is setup this way:
crossover 80hz
bass out: both (which mean sub + speakers)

I changed my speakers positions yesterday, lowered my speakers to ears level. Didnt change much.

Try switching the receiver to "direct" mode - most receivers have something like that to allow bypassing all crossovers and DSP. This at least will tell you if the problem is with the speakers or with the receiver / setup.

I've tried that in the past and it was scary, it was way worst . But instead of relying on my memory I will redo a test tonight with an audio cd.

Is there something I could have done wrong?

My receiver : http://www.yamaha.ca/av/Receivers/RX_V650Ti.jsp

all speakers are set to small

and are configure like this
FL: +6.5db
C: +7db
FR: +6
RL: +9db (due to odd speaker placement)
RR: +9db (due to odd speaker placement)

Luc,
The direct mode will usually not add or remove anything to the soundtrack. Also "usually" it will bypass the setup speaker size setting and crossover, so the "small" setting should not affect it _in this case_. Try to simplify the test as much as you can. I would do this:
+ Use receiver's tuner and not an external source
+ Use direct mode on the receiver
+ See if there is still "no bass" syndrome

If you get what you would expect in this setup move on and isolate whether this is a problem with receiver setup or the source (switch the source, change the setup).

Is there no bass with the sub turned on as well or just if you turn it off? There might be still problem with the "both" setting - in some of the processing modes it might get ignored and treated as "sub" and then your "small" setting on the front speakers will eliminate the bass.

As for the speaker volumes I would drop them all by 6dB - it is all relative and would simplify the calibration - the fronts are usually set to 0 and the rest plays off this baseline.

Luc, if you have always listened to the 22's with a sub, they will sound VERY thin on their own. The very same thing happens with my M80's when I turn the EP600 off. And the 80's have LOTS of bass.

You also stated that they are set to "small". Regardless if you have the Yamaha set to "BOTH" or not, when set to small, nothing below 80Hz is sent to the 22's. Result - no bass. Without the sub, you'll want to switch them to large.

In the other thread, I suggested getting a SPL meter & set-up disc. There is no reason why each channel should be set so high. You could drop them all by 5 or 6 db and still have the same "balance" that you have now. It doesn't make sense to have them all "boosted" like that.

good advice man!

I guess I should also try to lower the crossover to see if it's get better.

I dont know anyone with a spl meter, I had a YPAO mic that came with the receiver. I assume it will do a better job than me for tuning the receiver.
:-)

I will be doing intensive testings tonight. I'm wondering what is the normal listening range (in DB)? Right now, all my speakers are individually boosted, so If I reset them to be around +0db, I will have to increase the main volume.

Actually, I seem to be in this range
tv : -52db to -45db
movies: -45db to -38db


thank you

Luc, if you reset everything and wanted to keep the same "balance" you have now, the mains would be at 0db, the centre would be +1db, and the surrounds would be +3db, which by the way, is exactly how mine is set up! If you want it louder, just turn up the main or master volume control.

On a side note, I have the gain on the sub turned way up, so the receiver's sub volume is set between -13db and -16db.

TV with kids sleeping: around -50db
Movies: -28db to -22db (plus the sub gets turned up)
Music DVD's / Cd's: -20db to -12db (plus the sub gets turned up)

(For music, I would LOVE to have separates!!)

My Pioneer has 'Direct' which bypasses any surround processing but still honors 'small' and crossover. Another mode called 'Pure Direct' bypasses everything.

Yep, so does my Denon...Direct and Purd Direct... and the bass is killer on my m60's.

If your receiver has the speakers set to "small" (with a crossover of 80Hz) and then you turn off the power on your sub, you will get no bass.

The receiver is routing the bass to your sub, yet you turned it off.

(Unless I'm misunderstanding and what you meant to say is that you chose a "no sub" option in your receiver's menu).

If you want to listen to your 22s without a sub, you need to choose "large" and "no sub" in your receiver's menus.

what I really did is that I really turned off the power switch of my sub when my speakers were set to small (and a crossover of 80)

But in my AVR menu I have 3 options for BASS
- both (speakers + sub)
- sub
- none

I currently use BOTH and turned off the sub via the power switch.No changes were made on the AVR.

I will try your suggestion as soon as I get home (can't wait)..

dont remember a Direct option, but I do know that I have PureDirect

I will check, I've just found an online copy of the manual
http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/av/english/re/RX-V650_e.pdf

I have a Yamaha RX-V557.

I have a "Direct Stereo" mode, which completely bypasses the sub, all mode comes through.

It looks like they renamed it from "Pure Direct" to "Direct Stereo"

Pure direct is what you want. No need to turn off the sub, because the reciever will send nothing to it.

On yamaha recievers there is also a straight mode, which is what I use all the time. What this does is bypass any field processing, which means the receiver won't process speaker distances, room size, or anything like that, but the sub will be used. Some processing is still done to turn the sub on. Direct stereo (in your case pure direct) completely skips everything, true and true stereo only processing what it needs to get a stereo signal.

Luc, as Mark Johnson pointed out, don't just switch off the sub and leave the other settings the same, because the receiver will still be sending output to the sub which can't use it. Set the bass to "NONE", not "BOTH". The 80HZ crossover will then roll off the surrounds and center below 80Hz and send it to the M22s. Don't worry about any type of direct setting, you want bass processing. The M22s aren't bass powerhouses without the sub and you didn't say why exactly you're trying them like that, but mine give pretty strong output at 50Hz without a sub and much weaker but still usable output at 40Hz.

Randy,
You would have to say that as I have been listening to my system with my little M22s. For the past couple weeks I haven been yearning for a pair of M60s or M80s. A sort of Deja Vu feeling engulfed me and all of sudden it dawned on me, as has happened before, that there is no sound coming from my HSU VTF3. Ohh, Noo, has my Xmas present to myself up and died already? I checked the power switch--nothing is happening. A feeling of dread is now overtaking me. What have I done? I need some bass. Lastly, I look at the back of my receiver and I notice that the sub cable is not plugged in to the sub-out. For a couple of weeks I listened to my system without my sub and I didn't even realize it. I just knew that somehow I had to get a pair of M60s/80s. Now that my sub is working again, I don't know.

That is funny Little B.

Your receiver wants you to get some M60s. It'll unplug your sub cable again.