 loudspeakers with great bass?
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Ok guys, as I have posted we have done alot of remodeling. I now have just my 2 M60's in my Living room theater as you can see in my sig. We have the "modern/simplistic" look in our Townhouse.
As everyone here knows, I love my M60's and would never part with them. I do however feel that If im going to have a 2.0 system (no sub) for both movies and music (mostly movies) that I may be able to find a loudspeaker that handles bass even better then the 60's.
Any suggestions on Loudspeakers that can hit those lows in movies and such?
My budget is in the $4500-$6000 range for towers.
With my situation in mind, what would you guys suggest?
Thanks
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RS 1000Each tower has an 8 inch powered subwoofer. Available on trial like Axioms.
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I would suggest adding a sub to your current system rather than spending more on loudspeakers. There are plenty of good subs out there for far less money and would make a bigger impact on you movie experience than any regular speaker can.
Rick
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud
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Quote:
M80
From what I understand, the M80s would not make much of a difference in terms of bass correct?
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Quote:
I would suggest adding a sub to your current system rather than spending more on loudspeakers. There are plenty of good subs out there for far less money and would make a bigger impact on you movie experience than any regular speaker can.
A sub just cant happen right now with the space, wife, and thin walls of a townhouse.
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Quote:
RS 1000
Each tower has an 8 inch powered subwoofer.
Available on trial like Axioms.
i will have to look into those. thanks for the suggestion. 
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Here is another great line with internet only sales and customer service like Axiom, as well as discounted used speakers. Tyler
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.
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The Tyler website has a home demo page. LinkIt shows a system in Raleigh.
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Quote:
A sub just cant happen right now with the space, wife, and thin walls of a townhouse.
Jay:
I'm not sure I fully understand the "thin walls" comment. Your neighbors will not differentiate between a 90dB, 30Hz tone produced by a tower speaker or a sub. More bass, whether from a sub or a tower, will equal more concerns for the neighbors.
A "2.0" system designation leads me to assume stereo-only, not HT use. The M60's you have already come darn close to being full-range unless your looking for organ pedal notes....(which again, of course, would surely affect your neighbors).
In other words, I hear you saying that you want only a little more bass, so as not to be enough to annoy the neighbors. Considering the fact that the M60s are close to full range, why not buy one of the extra-small subs that can be placed in a very well hidden location? That would give you the half-octave that you're missing, without hurting the "space" issue and the WAF issue much..... and give you an extra $4,000 in your pocket.
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
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I totally agree with Mark and Wid. Your reason for eliminating the sub makes no sense if your reasoning is you want more bass out of the m60's. Are you sure you have your receiver set correct so your M60's are receiving the full frequency? Most people that listen to my m60's with no sub ask "Are you sure you turned off the sub?" Anyway, like Mark, I don't understand your reasoning. You say you want more bass for movies, so if you did infact find some mains that gave you the bass your looking for, it would be no different than a sub in the equation.
You would be better off adding the sub back, and just adjusting the volume to a level that won't disturb the neighbors/wife.
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85
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I totally hear what you are saying Mark and Sirquack. i guess I should have just said, the extra subwoofer in terms of looks is what we are trying to get away from. very limited on space and its pretty hard to hide it the way we have things set up now. i think im just trying to have my cake and eat it too. lol. i miss the sound of my EP500 during heavy bass and such but it was just to big for our living room. sometimes i just need you guys to set me straight. 
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I have no experience with any of them, I'm just wondering if one of those 12" cube subs could be tucked away somewhere to give you that half octave? It would certainly be less conspicious than an EP500....
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
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If you want more bass but like a detailed speaker, take a look at the Whafedale Opus line. I’ve had the Opus 2’s in piano black for about six month now. Still don’t know if I like them or my M80’s more, but I think for movies, the Opus would be my preference. For music it really depends on what I’m listening to. The Opus 2’s definitely have more bass than the 80’s, but the 80’s seam to have more mid range punch. The highs are little more laid back on the Opus’s as well. They also make an Opus 3 that has twin 10” drivers verses the 8” drivers in the 2’s. I haven’t heard the 3’s and can’t comment on how they sound. But if they have more bass than the 2’s, I think it would be too much. You can pick up the 2’s for “around” 3K if you can find a dealer state side that carries them. Some dealers have them listed at over 5K, but that’s way too much.
I vastly prefer my M80’s and EP600 over the Opuses. That combo’s pure music bliss………
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What do you guys think of adding this sub in with the M60's. http://www.athenaspeakers.com/as-p4000.htmSeems like a decent little sub for a good price. Reviews seem pretty good also. Thoughts?
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How much would it cost for you?
The little x-sub at av123 is quite the performer for $200...and doesn't take much corner space. What size room will this be in?
*Michael*
AV123 Refugee - X-LS Encore, X-Voce, X-Omnis, Elt-Dpa's
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If the 500 was to big for size/performance in your smaller room, then why not look at one of the other smaller Axiom Subs, then your finish would match your 60's.
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85
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Quote:
How much would it cost for you?
The little x-sub at av123 is quite the performer for $200...and doesn't take much corner space.
Outlaw's LFM-2 is a nice little item as well.
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check out the sunfire jr also-13x13x13 small and powerfull
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Quote:
If the 500 was to big for size/performance in your smaller room, then why not look at one of the other smaller Axiom Subs, then your finish would match your 60's.
if im being honest here, I had the EP 175 as my first sub from axiom and i was never very happy with it. i dont like to talk bad about axiom in any way as i think there a great company i just wasnt impressed with the Subs until I got to the EP500 and that thing just about blew my house down. LOL.
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Well, they mysteriously seem to have fallen out of favor around here recently, but Hsu deserves a look.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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http://www.nhthifi.com/p-ht-evolution.htmlNHT T5'S or T6's if i were in your position that is definaly what i would do.
Last edited by dakkon; 06/06/06 12:11 AM.
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Jay, I especially agree with Mark and Randy that you can't have it both ways; very deep and strong bass might disturb neighbors regardless of whether it's coming from a sub or main speakers. Although this would lose the advantage of corner placement that separate subs make possible, some do use a sub immediately alongside(or for concealment, immediately behind)each main speaker, forming almost a single unit.
Another point which would seem a bit curious is using a 2.0 setup, regardless of how strong the bass would be, for movies. The surround effects furnished by at least two surround speakers are of major significance.
-----------------------------------
Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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I have a pair of Thiel CS 3.6 speakers good to about 27Hz/2db. They are great speakers. Even though mine are a part of a 7.1 system, I listen to a lot of 2 channel stereo using just the Thiels. This is a discontinued model but can be found for less than $2000 a pair used in great shape. I found mine for about $1300. Got lucky.
A pair of Axiom M80s might do ya.
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.
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If I were in your shoes, I would consider the Legacy Audio Signature III. The specs are 20 hz - 30 khz, +/-2db. While I have not heard the Signature III, I have listened extensively to the Legacy Classic which is no longer made. A truly fantastic speaker. I believe that the Signature III is within your budget. Good luck in your search.
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Quote:
We have the "modern/simplistic" look in our Townhouse.
As everyone here knows, I love my M60's and would never part with them. I do however feel that If im going to have a 2.0 system (no sub) for both movies and music (mostly movies) that I may be able to find a loudspeaker that handles bass even better than the 60's.
Any suggestions on Loudspeakers that can hit those lows in movies and such?
My budget is in the $4500-$6000 range for towers.
With my situation in mind, what would you guys suggest?
Thanks
If you are "forced" to go with two speakers for music and movies, I would strongly suggest a set of bi-polar or omni-polar speakers.
I had a set of Mirage M3-si bi-polar speakers that portrayed a very live perormance type of sound. The effect with movies was easily better than a pair of direct firing speakers. (It's only when you get into multi-channel bi-polar that it comes in second to a conventional home theater speaker setup).
I have a friend who owns a pair of Mirage bi-polars (pre-omnipolar speakers) and is completely happy with the "bi-polar stereo sound" for movies.
It is something to consider. If you go with one of their top models, they can reproduce the lower frequencies quite well.
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I second the Thiel recommendation. I heard a pair a few years ago and was wowed. They were playing classical music so I can't attest to the bass, but I'd look into the brand anyway.
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For a small sub, I'm now pretty strongly leaning toward trying out the AV123 Rocket UFW-10. Some of what I've read is a general feeling that if you have to, or want to go small on a sub design, that a Sealed sub has better effect and be better musically than a ported would of the same small dimensions.
Another option that I've considered is the Partsexpress Titanic 10" model.
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If I were to go with the smaller Sub option. I notice alot of subs like the athena that I linked to above dont seem to have a "bypass" opption. When I had the EP 500 I set it to bypass and let the reciever do the crossover. How do you setup a sub that dosent have a bypass option? Thanks
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Set the crossover on the sub as high as possible, and set the receiver's crossover below that.
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If there is no "bypass" or "disable" option, you just turn the volume/gain clockwise to the highest setting since your receiver will be managing the crossover.
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Oh, but if you absolutely want just Towers, take a look at the Def Tech 7000 series (7000, 7001, etc...)
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Uh... no.
You certainly don't want to crank the volume all the way up on the sub! Crossover, yes, volume/gain, no!
That would be rather loudish.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Man, I've lost it....as Ken corrected me on, you want to crank the crossover not the gain, ha ha, lol. Ok, I'm going to get lunch, a little General Tso Chicken and then sleep the rest of the afternoon at my desk...
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
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Ok thanks guys, I think I will go with the small sub option. Since you guys know so much more about graphs and numbers and such, if you were going to buy one of these subs, which one would it be based on the specs listed? They are both about the same in price range. Thanks Athena AS-P4000 http://www.athenaspeakers.com/as-p4000-specs.htmOutlaw LMF-2 http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfm2.html
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Outlaw or the equivalent Hsu (STF-1). I don't like the looks of the Athena, and it's got 50 watts less power.
On the other hand, it does have a bigger woofer, so you could gain more there.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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I too would opt for either the Outlaw or the Hsu STF 1.
Rick
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud
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Does the outlaw have a Bypass setting or am I reading this the wrong way?
Specifications
Driver Type: Down Firing, 8" Long-throw Woofer
Ports: Single
Amplifier Power Rating: 150WRMS; 800W peak
Frequency Response: 28Hz. -180Hz. +/- 2 dB
Crossover Type: Linkwitz-Reilly 4th Order Low Pass Network
Crossover Frequency: 30Hz to 90Hz and Bypass
Phase: 0 to 180 Degrees
SPL: 110dB (subject to placement and room gain)
Dimensions: (HxWxD) 17" x 11.25" x 16.5"
Weight: 37 lbs
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I dont see any bypass setting in the pic but the specs seem to say it does? 
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On the bottom right hand corner there is a switch that says crossover, in and out. That is the bypass for the sub.
Rick
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud
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Its the little switch above the plug labelled "crossover".
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Ok thanks guys. So I would set the switch to "in" or "out" in order to bypass the sub and let the reciever do the crossover? Thanks and sorry for all the dumb questions..
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I have a UFW-10, and it is indeed a great little sub. A fine performer all around, even for movies, though it doesn't go as deep or play quite as smooth as my Axiom EP500. It's down side is that it's not priced like a little sub. But then, it doesn't perform like a little sub either. Ya pays yer money, and takes yer cherce. 
Jack
"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
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Quote:
Ok thanks guys. So I would set the switch to "in" or "out" in order to bypass the sub and let the reciever do the crossover?
Out.
Rick
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud
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Quote:
Quote:
Ok thanks guys. So I would set the switch to "in" or "out" in order to bypass the sub and let the reciever do the crossover?
Out.
thanks. and with the switch set to "out", it dosent matter what the crossover frequency on the Sub is set too since it is being bypassed correct? in other words, I could turn the knob to 40 or 70 or whicever I choose and it wouldnt matter since i have the sub set to bypass. just trying to make to I understand 100%. thanks
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Rick
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud
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yep, bypass means bypass. 
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Quote:
A sub just cant happen right now with the space, wife, and thin walls of a townhouse.
Quote:
Ok thanks guys, I think I will go with the small sub option.
I think somebody took the wrong turn at Albuquerque and got lost! 
He must have a different space or a different wife or new thick walls. 
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Or excellent powers of persuasion.
Jack
"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
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Re: loudspeakers with great bass? Who needs 'em!
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2 small subs under the mains are easier to hide than one big honkin' sub
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Quote:
Quote:
A sub just cant happen right now with the space, wife, and thin walls of a townhouse.
Quote:
Ok thanks guys, I think I will go with the small sub option.
I think somebody took the wrong turn at Albuquerque and got lost!
He must have a different space or a different wife or new thick walls.
I change my mind about things on a whim. Tommorow I could be ordering 2 EP600's and blasting down my house. Some say I am nuttier then squirrel shit. 
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Or just order one horizontal 600, and use it as a table infront of the couch, the wife will like the furniture addition.
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85
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Re: loudspeakers with great bass? Who needs 'em!
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379 Likes: 7
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,379 Likes: 7 |
Doesn't the 600 have angled sides... ie an angled top in horizontal ? I have enough trouble with things sliding off a flat-topped subwoofer -- you would need a case of blu-tac to keep things from sliding off a 600... ... but the bass would be awesome, which is all that really counts
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
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Re: loudspeakers with great bass? Who needs 'em!
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 317
devotee
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OP
devotee
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 317 |
Quote:
Or just order one horizontal 600, and use it as a table infront of the couch, the wife will like the furniture addition.
 i didnt think of that! hmm.. (dialing axioms order line)
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Re: loudspeakers with great bass? Who needs 'em!
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,458
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,458 |
Here's two ideas I've had over the last couple of years that might prove helpful: Two subs fashioned into a coffee table:  Or one sub fashioned into a beer tap:  Either one might help you to get some bass past the WAF!
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
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Re: loudspeakers with great bass? Who needs 'em!
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 317
devotee
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OP
devotee
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 317 |
Quote:
Here's two ideas I've had over the last couple of years that might prove helpful:
Two subs fashioned into a coffee table:
Or one sub fashioned into a beer tap:
Either one might help you to get some bass past the WAF!
bwahahahahha. i love this board.
in the "Real World" people look at me like im goofy when I talk about Home Theater and such. But here, you are all as nuts as I am!
great pics mark!
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Re: loudspeakers with great bass?
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,339
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,339 |
Quote:
Outlaw it is then.
If this is where you end up, it will be nice to get your review.
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Re: loudspeakers with great bass? Who needs 'em!
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,488 |
Let's not forget the pure genius of the Thunder Table
bibere usque ad hilaritatem
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Re: loudspeakers with great bass?
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 317
devotee
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OP
devotee
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 317 |
Quote:
Quote:
Outlaw it is then.
If this is where you end up, it will be nice to get your review.
Placed my order for the LMF-2 yesterday. Will let you know when it comes in.
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Re: loudspeakers with great bass? Who needs 'em!
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 59
buff
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buff
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 59 |
Be careful, that may put too large of a head on your beer depending on what is playing at the time. 
M80's
QS8's
VP150
SVS 20-39 PC-Plus
Sony 60" SXRD
Denon 3805
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Re: loudspeakers with great bass? Who needs 'em!
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 324
devotee
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devotee
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 324 |
The SVS PB10-NSD might fit your needs. It comes in either black or white and is quite tiny. Failing that, how about bass shakers for the seats / couch? You'd get the shake from movies and bass, and you wouldn't see them either? - D
"Big John is my Idol...or is it that other way around? Let's ask Ray!"
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Re: loudspeakers with great bass? Who needs 'em!
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833 |
That Outlaw sub should have been delivered by now. Update.
Rick
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud
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Re: loudspeakers with great bass? Who needs 'em!
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,339
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,339 |
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Re: loudspeakers with great bass? Who needs 'em!
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,463 Likes: 1
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,463 Likes: 1 |
Man, aren't we a demanding bunch?
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose
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Re: loudspeakers with great bass? Who needs 'em!
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044 |
Want info NOW! NOW NOW NOW!
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: loudspeakers with great bass? Who needs 'em!
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840 Likes: 13
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,840 Likes: 13 |
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85
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Re: loudspeakers with great bass? Who needs 'em!
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 317
devotee
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OP
devotee
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 317 |
Quote:
That Outlaw sub should have been delivered by now. Update.
Shipped out the 9th from Carson, CA and is expected to be here in Raleigh tommorow. Outlaw definitly dosent compare to Axiom when it comes to shipping!
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Re: loudspeakers with great bass? Who needs 'em!
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833 |
Quote:
Outlaw definitly dosent compare to Axiom when it comes to shipping!
I guess not.
Rick
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud
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Re: loudspeakers with great bass? Who needs 'em!
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,339
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,339 |
We'll just keep patiently waiting!
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Re: loudspeakers with great bass? Who needs 'em!
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 317
devotee
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OP
devotee
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 317 |
Got the sub this morning.
Very solid little sub. You get the feeling that you could drop in down the stairs and it would be fine. (Not that I would ever try it.) lol. If I was comparing it to the Axiom Subs, (I have had the EP175, EP350, and EP500), I would say the Outlaw sub is comparable to the EP350. Thats pretty damn good for the price and size of this little sub. The EP175 just didnt sound as good in terms of clean bass and port noise and such. Maybe its due to the down firing design? I have the sub in the same place using the same settings as my other subs so there is no difference there. Im very happy with this little sub and amazed how powerful it is.
I put in War of the Worlds and was just blown away by the power. Same thing goes for Revenge of the Sith. The opening scene of Sith was rattling my sofa and windows, this is something the EP175 never did no matter how high the volume. Whats more is that the Outlaw did this without any distortion or port noise.
The Outlaw isnt near as powerful as the EP500 and dosent go as low but then again for almost $1000 less I wouldnt expect it to.
Thats my little review. I will be happy to answer any questions or snap a few shots if you like.
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Re: loudspeakers with great bass? Who needs 'em!
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,339
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,339 |
Glad to read the good review!
Congrats!
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Re: loudspeakers with great bass? Who needs 'em!
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833 |
Nice I'm glad you're enjoying it.
Rick
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud
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