Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Serious subwoofer advice?

I just got back from GG. I took in two of my own CDs to demo the Parasound/Veritas combo. It sounded very, very good but not worth pissing off the wife by spending $2-3K more. Really the difference was miniscule between their stuff and mine.

I decided to hold off on the big screen for awhile (2006?).

So, I've been looking at subs again - SVS 20-39 cylinder sub, SVS PSB 2 plus, and the HSU VTF 3. Cost, looks, and size aside, which of the three would you choose? Anything else out there worth taking a look at? How does having a bigger, more powerful sub benefit you if you are going to calibrate it to the same db level anyway? Will I lose the port noise and the bottoming out noise?

Thanks in advance people, I know this has been done before. And as poster of this thread you are hereby granted permission to stray as far off topic as you like.

BigWill,

The thing is, not many people have heard all of these subs, so I think you will get a lot of bias.

SOOO....my bias is with the VTF-3. Tight, fast, accurate, can go low, and play loud.

curtis

try this one out..you may want to consider getting two ....ron http://worldsbestspeakers.com/bladder.htm

I would definitely grab the SVS PB2+. Two drivers are better than one, for more reasons than the obvious. With two drivers, the same SPL can be attained with less distortion than with one driver alone. Also, it's more tunable than the Hsu.

Chalk up another vote for the Hsu.

I second Peter's vote, but ONLY IF the box side is an absolute non-issue. The box is, well, large.

I just got the weirdest feeling of déja vú....

Pretty sure Sushi meant "size" not "side".

This just in...

"Due to popular demand, our VTF-3 backorder is expected to continue until at least the end of the month. We do have a few VTF-3R Rosewood B-stock units for $920 with free shipping, warranty, but without the 30-day trial period. They are sonically perfect but have very minor cosmetic damage that can hardly be noticed. Please call us at 1-714-666-9260 to order the b-stock VTF-3R."

This is from the Hsu newsletter which just came out. The Rosewood VTF-3 for uner a grand(shipped), is a good deal. I wish I had $920 laying around, I'd be grabbing one.

Not trying to push the Hsu too much, but I just this second found out about the b-stock VTF-3's. Thought I'd pass along the info.

Here's the link to the Hsu newsletter. Some good info!

http://hsuresearch.com/forum/announcement.php?forumid=2

Thanks. I suppose I should have added that my priority would be for HT, as I barely use the sub for music. I saw the HSU Rosewood deal. Not sure if Rosewood is a plus for me.
I really can't believe that the HSU would be able to compete with the PSB2+.
The size of the SVS would only be an issue if it needs more than 7" of clearance at the rear. My media niche is 35" deep and I don't want the front sticking out too far (the SVS is 28" deep). Turning it laterally might work, but it would then begin to crowd the rest of my stuff.

Would 7-10" of clearance at those rear ports be adequate?

Is the area enclosed? You might run the risk of getting too much bass reinforcement with that big a sub in that area.

You only need to be a little more than the diameter of the port away from the wall. Your 7-10 inches should be fine. Note that the cylinder downfire subs have a bottom plate in front of the ports that is much closer than 7" and it uses 3" ports.

I am making my own subwoofers using two 12" AV12s. I think this is the best way to go if you don't mind getting dirty.

Also, You can't have too much bass as someone mentioned. You just need to level set using an spl meter like any other speaker.

Just measured the room. 34' and change X 18' with 9' ceilings = 5508 cubic feet. Three openings to other rooms each about 4'x 8'. I suppose my chief complaint w/ existing sub is the extranneous noise it produces during movies.

Mark, that's a pretty big room. In the past you were experimenting with the sub placement; did you wind up with a position where you got maximum bass reinforcement from the 3 nearest room surfaces? If not, the "free" output boost you get there might allow a lower level setting on your sub and reduce your problem with what I term( with Alan's approval)"portnoise complaint". There's relatively little difference between all the subs you've mentioned and room placement can easily make more of a change than 1 or 2 hz more extension or 2-3 db more output capability.

Thamks, John. I was just thinking of moving it back to the corner today! It means my M60s will be a little closer to each other than I'd like, and one will be closer to the TV than the other, but...

You may want to check out this site for real world performance specs for many subs discussed here:

http://www.lut.fi/~maeronen/subspl.txt

How come the Hsu VTF-3 isn't included in the list that 2x6 just linked? It's more popular than most others listed there...

With regard to the port clearance, I wouldn't underestimate the importance of a good clearance: When my VTF-3 (max extension mode, with one port open) is working hard to reproduce bass sound close to the port-resonance frequency at ~16Hz, the air velocity at the outer end of the port is just ENORMOUS. I can feel lots of "wind" blowing onto my palm even at 3-4 feet away from the port. While I don't think 3' clearance is a must, I tend to feel that "the more the better."

Why don't those specs list distortion levels? That's more important than spl levels in my book.

Craig, note that the Finnish site does specify a 10% distortion limit. While in general distortion over 1% begins to be audible on music, at very low bass frequencies the threshold of audibility is higher and several percent isn't detectible. Hence the use of 10% in that analysis.

OK...I know I need to get a life...but regardless, I took the specs from that Finnish website, discarded some of the lesser known subs, and created a easy to read table. I've also included MSRP's where I could find them.

You'll note that of the subs in the list, the Hsu VTF-2 seems like the real giant killer of the bunch. Nothing that puts out the Hsu specs, even comes close to it's price. I also noticed that the Velodyne subs are EXPENSIVE! Ouch...

Here's the link...

www.funnyfarmcomics.net/sub_specs.htm

BTW, John, are bad literary puns permissible on this board.

That's a nice handy table spiff.
Slow day at work?

Maybe you could make 2 more tables and sort them by price, lowest extensiion, etc. just for comparison sake.

Mark, you'll note that I cited Alan's approval; I would have never dared such impertinance otherwise. As authority I rely on the following .

Naah, don't get a life. That's pretty interesting! I'd say that if I was shopping for a sub, I'd go with the Hsu (sorry, Peter!) Plus, it's smaller. I think I'll stick with my Cambridge Soundworks Powered Subwoofer 1 for now. (Gawd, that's a long name, innit?) It would be interesting to see how that compared.

Guess the Sunfire subs aren't the greatest thing since sliced bread like all of the magazines made them out to be...

You have to take those magazine reviews with a grain of salt -- especially when you see full-page ads of the product being reviewed contained within the same magazine.

As a matter of fact, you should take all opinions with a grain of salt, including the opinion that you should take opinions with a grain of salt.

Yes, just like you did.... ;-)

Peter, that was very well put!!
A truly quotable quote.

[ taking a bow ]