Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Axiom Subwoofers

Just started looking at getting into home theatre again. Unfortunately, due to space constraints, I cant go back with the Magnepan home theatre, so I am considering a full set of Axiom, namely the Epic Grand Master "package". About 2 years ago, I was able to listen to a set of Axioms (M3ti's) and was very impressed.

One thing I havent seen too much discussion about it Axiom's subwoofers. My budget is right at $1500, so including the subwoofer, this would fit nicely. But I see most people avoiding Axiom's subwoofer's and going with another brand. If Axiom's subs are "lacking", what would you suggest in the $500 price range? I was lucky enough w/ my last home theatre setup to be able to purchase a used (and well taken care of) Velodyne HGS-10"...My budget (and probably my luck) does not have that luxury this time.

All opinions will be appreciated!

By the way, this setup will most likely be hooked up to a NAD T742 receiver. I have been way too loyal since I got my first integrated amp from them years ago.

I think the EP175 is an excellent sub, especially for music. It really integrates seamlessly with the rest of my new Axiom speakers (M22's, VP150, QS8's). Bass guitar, bass drum, etc. all sound the way they should. I have mine in a back corner, opposite my mains, but the bass still sounds up front, where it should be. I also feel for home theater, effects are very realistic sounding, not at all muffled or booming. I have never compared to SVS or HSU, just my old Kenwood sub. I am sure SVS and HSU are fine subs, but I think the Axiom gets a bum rap, especially when you consider that 5% is off the entire system price, not just the sub. It brings the EP175 down to around $410, making it an excellent value. Why not get the 30 day trial and check it out?
Barry

5% off? did I miss something?

***nevermind, just realized the "package" knocked 5% off the price

While Axiom subs aren't all that bad, most here will agree that you'll get better bang for your buck with SVS or Hsu Research.

If size is a concern, I'd definitely go with the Hsu VTF-2 sub. Great sound in a nicely "hide-able" package. If you don't mind having something larger, I'd go with an SVS -- either the 25-31 PCi cylinder sub, or their PB1-ISD box sub.

All of these three subs are within your budget, and all are great subs.

Hsu has some "b-stock" VTF-2's available for only $399 with free shipping. I have the VTF-2 and it's a great sub. You'll like it.

Thanks to my fellow newbie Twopecker for asking almost exactly the same question I was going to ask. I was similarly surprised about the extent to which other subwoofers were mentioned. I've got a Yamaha 5660 and am planning on 2 M60s, a VP150 and 2 QS8s for surround. I was originally planning on an EP350 sub, but would like to consider other options as well. The system will be in a 20x20 room with a cathedral ceiling, so I'd prefer to err on the more powerful side for a sub. And to my dread, I'm beginning to feel the inevitable "but it's only X dollars more..." demon whispering into my ear.

So, given the setup above, I'm thinking about the following potential choices for a sub:
- EP350
- SVS 20-39PCI
- VTF-2 or VTF-3
- TN-1220

I still have to ask my wife what her preference would be (I think I should at least ASK--"if Mama ain't happy...") but I think I'd probably prefer a box at this point. The VTF-2 would probably be fine, but given the room size and the desire to keep what I will be getting for a long time, I'd be leaning toward the VTF-3 between those two. And of course, that darn creature is still on my shoulder whispering--the "Animal House" imp has NOTHING on this guy.

So folks, thoughts?

Sorry for the long post, but thanks in advance; tremendous advice and expertise from all of you posters, and it's VERY much appreciated!

Take care all.

I have heard all the Hsu subs you have listed, and I own a VTF-3.

The TN1220HO is the best sub I have heard from Hsu. Very clean down to 16hz (cleaner than my VTF-3)...very accurate too. The VTF-3 can also get to 16hz, but not with as much output, and not quite as clean.

If I did not already have a VTF-3, I would seriously think about spending more money and then buying a TN1220HO with the Hsu 500watt amp.

curtis

Curtis:

Thanks for the reply...as I read the web site, the VTF-3 and the TN1220HO (250watt amp) are the same price. In that case would you still opt for the TN1220? I don't think I need to be in the $1100 range...$850 is probably as high as I'd like to go.

The reason I would go for the 500watt amp is for the ability to add a second TN1220HO in the future without having to buy an amp.

Would I do a single TN1220HO with a 250watt amp now instead of the VTF-3? Yes, because I know now, for my room, I do not need the placement options that a box sub offers. Also, I got a B stock VTF-3 at a great price, and I did not know about the TN1220 or hear one when I purchased the VTF-3. It is Hsu's unsung flagship.

The only down side I see to the TN1220 is the fact that it is not heavy, and it is tall, not hard to be pushed over. But it can be put on its side without any negative effects.

curtis

The issue about Axiom's subs has not been so much in regards to their performance but more in regards to their price.
Simply put, there are less expensive subwoofers on the market that do an excellent job in this area. Hsu and SVS are two of the most popular brands.

I recently bought an SPL meter and discovered that I had been playing the sub WAY louder than it should have been. The last two movies we've watched (post callibration) I have 0 complaints about the EP350. Lots of slam and rumble, no port noise and no ugly driver noise. For music it has always been great.

If I had it to do over I might opt for one of the SVS cylinder subs, based on all the hype and the cool looks and small footprint of the cylinder design.

Okay, I'm going to ask what I'm sure is a REAL stupid question but I've been reading about cylinder- vs. cub-based subs (and salivating somewhat, incidentally), and didn't see information to answer this question:

Does the direction the sub fires make a difference depending on the room? Seems like for a large, cathedral ceiling room a sub that fires closer to the floor would have more "carry" compared to a cylinder. Or is it simply a matter of sound pressure level/compaction waves that have similar characteristics no matter how they're achieved? With a cylinder vs. box sub of equal power/oomph, is one a better fit than the other for different kinds of areas?

Sorry for being stupid but I'm really trying to do research before I buy, and before asking I'm trying to find the information already in a post/thread, only this time I couldn't.

Thanks in advance and take care!

I'm no expert either, but I believe the SVS subs have downward firing drivers.

My SVS PB1-ISD can do 0 Hz! And I don't even have to turn it on!

Larry, SVS cylinder subs fire down from the bottom, Dr. Hsu's cylinder subs fire up from the top(note however that both can be placed horizontally). The proximity of the subwoofer cone to the floor and two nearest walls affects the reinforcement the room gives to the bass. So, while the direction the driver points isn't significant at these frequencies, the strength of the response is affected by proximity to surfaces.

In reply to:

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the strength of the response is affected by proximity to surfaces

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I believe this is the exact reason SVS subs come with integrated bases, so the nearest surface is always constant and help the sub sound more consistent in different arrangements -- even when placed on its side.

This is the 2nd post I have read today about laying the tall tube type subs on their sides.. I had not even thought about it.. Like Bazoka car subs.. This would really help a lot with those that do not care for the waterheater look.. I'll have to ask SVS and/or Hsu about this.. One could build up a couple wooden cradles, with some padding ? Hmmmmmm...

I've talked to SVS about it when I briefly had one of their subs before getting the HSU. They said on the side is fine.

Say Curtis, what's Hsu's website add ? I've lost the bookmark.. Again..
Thks...

Thanks Zarak... This really opens up some possibilities with placement..

Hang it from the ceiling!

I think I will end up ordering an SVS sub likely the PC+ 20-39 - 2 reasons.

1. I can *almost* hide it behind my chair.
2. cschang has the HSU, and I'd like to do a comparison - I can always send it back.

hey Mikey.

www.hsuresearch.com

You are pretty close to them....they are in Anaheim. I suggest you make an appointment to visit and talk to Dr. Hsu himself.

curtis

Zen,

Not sure I want to lug my VTF-3 to your place! You are bigger than me....you can lug the SVS to my place!

curtis

Much obliged Curtis.. Yeah, ZeN said Hsu was close by.. Silly not to have looked that one up sooner..
Going to have some fun with this, that's for sure.. I have not owned a quaility sub as yet.. Hope he allows home trials ? My KLH paperweights (bout all their good for) have just got to go !!

Don't put it past me.. You saw the hooks in the ceiling and holes in the M80's, you know I'm crazy enough to try it..

Mikey,

They have the standard 30 day trial period...but you got to shell out the money first.

Not sure of your needs/wants/budget....but with a dedicated theater that ZeN mentioned to me, I would check out the dual TN1220HO with 500watt amp setup.....it was incredible....but expensive.

curtis

Will do Curtis.. They do look nice, and a bit slimmer in design than some others...
As to my budget, lets just say it's based mostly on assets as opposed to income.. In other words, "I need a sub woofer.. Hmmmm, I wonder how much I can get for this old lawn mower ??" Aside from what pawnable items I may still have left, the lovely Mrs Mikey keeps a close eye on the old purse strings, eh.. Not a lot of action going on there, but I have been hiding my lunch money ! hahahah..
And yes, I would HAVE to have two of them.. Don't really know why, just a guy thing, right ? I get away on this by telling the misses it does a better job of balancing out the room decor.. Oh yeah, this old dawg has learned a few tricks in his day..

if you get the TN's.....I would love to come down for a listen.