Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Wireless Headphones

Dad's birthday is coming up and I thought I'd get him some wireless headphones to replace the wired ones he already has. Do you lose sound quality with the wireless units? If that's the case, I would rather just upgrade the wired ones he has now. The old guy drinks ALOT of coffee and watches ALOT of satellite TV (i.e., not much for music).

Anybody out there have some real knowledge/experience with these things?

Much appreciated.

I've listened to cordless headphones from Philips and Sony. The Philips had a neodynium driver. Both were above average in music output, but that's it. Nothing very great. They just sounded better than a radio.

I played KennyG, Queen and Indian Classical on them. The Philips seemed to have slightly better highs than the Sony but muddy bass. The Sony was more laid back and accurate. But neither one impressed me. I then borrowed a pair of corded Sennheiser phones and listened again. The sound was far superior to the cordless ones. But for watching movies and effects, the cordless ones will do fine.

If your dad isn't an audio enthusiast or very choosy about the sound, its a nice gift because it really gives a lot of freedom to move about and just about do anything like carpentry or cleaning without disturbing anyone while still listening to his favourite movies.

The Philips sells more in India and retails for about $70. It should be a little cheaper in the US or Canada.

You did NOT just say Kenny G, did you?

Uhh...Something I'm missing here? Yes, I did mean Kenny G.

I auditioned a lot of headphones when I was searching for a birthday present for a hard to please guy- Me. I was not looking for wireless phones as everything I read said that they were A)heavy B)not capable of the sound reproduction I wanted, and C)susceptible to interference from RF emitters. At any rate, I narrowed my search down to two companies (Sennheiser, Grado) purely based on reviews, and then went looking through their lineup for the right phones. I picked the Grado SR-80s based on their bang for their buck and they are amazing phones. However, if I was shopping for someone else (or my next birthday) I would choose the Sennheiser HD-580s.
They are more comfortable than the Grados and their sound is much easier to take. The Grados are constantly being described as "incredibly accurate" or "revealing" (sound familiar?). I find that they overemphasize the high end and take a fair amount of getting used to. Over time I have come to the conclusion that there is a difference between accuracy and high end coloration and I feel that the Grados cross that line. The Sennheisers are simply more comfortable to wear, and more comfortable to listen to. I'm sure that your dad would let you listen every now and then.

These words about Kenny G say it best.

Ah..Now I get it. I think I must clarify a little point here. I have never been a fan of Kenny G as I find his music mostly out of rythm and pitch. Nor do I own even own or ever listen to his "songs". The 3 CDs I used to audition the wireless phones were the only ones I could lay my hands on at the time at my workplace.

Hence, my honest reivew was based on only what I could hear.

And thanks a lot for that link to Kenny G. You've done me a big favour as I keep debating with others here on the quality of Kenny G's music. I'd been looking for one such link for so long. Heh Heh.

You're free to direct more such brickbats to me. Here's one that is going to attract curses. I used to be an ardent fan of Metallica.

:-)

The wireless headphones based on the digital IR transmission (instead of FM) don't suffer from loss of sound quality. In fact, these Sony "digital surround" headphones sound darn good. The "full open air" drivers used are the same as the ones on my own favorite, the MDR-F1. But they aren't cheap at a whopping $500-800 MSRP.

In general, wireless headphones do lose sound quality. The wire is an essential part at transfering the audio signal, and some people even replace the standard headphone cord with a better quality one (clou blue/red) to improve the audio.

There are alot of good headphones out there, and you should really get one depending on your preferences.

You must also take into consideration that alot of the mid-high end headphones ($100+) require a headphone amplifier to sound decent. I personally own a pair of AKG K410s and they definately require an amp to be suitable.

Ok, for suggestions:

Beyer DT770
Great if you like bass. you probably wont find any other phones that can produce clean powerful bass like these.

AKG K401/501
Great if you like a more delicate sound. Amazingly wide soundstage, great tonal response, light on bass.

Sennheiser 580/600
Neutral headphones that are very popular in the headphone market. they have a nice overall sound.

Sony CD3000
Similar to the Senn 580/600.

Grado
Very upfront phones, gives you a definate impact. highs can be alittle bright, and they are not the most comfortable headphone either.

Audio Technica W1000
Probably the best looking headphones I've ever seen, with a polished wood finish. Good sound quality, but somewhat overpriced.

Anyways, those were just some quick notes on a few of the more popular headphones.

Metallica?! I'm "guilty" of that too. Perhaps more so. I am seeing them in concert next month. Luckily it seems as though they're sticking mostly to their older stuff this time around. They still DO put on a great show -- even if they are gorilla sphincters.

Well, dammit! I still am an ardent fan of Metallica. But y'all already knew that.

I picked up a used Metallica CD at y'all's suggestion. I can only take a couple of songs at a time. The drummer is constantly crashing what sounds like 4 cymbals throughout the whole album. Too much.

How do you know they don't suffer from a sound quality loss, Sushi? Have you demo-ed any? From what most people have said (I checked out a forum dedicated to headphones - what dorks!) there does seem to be a difference.

The difference is probably due to the fact that head-philes spend ungodly amounts on their headphone cables. Without a cable, it can't possibly sound as good as a $500/ft. headphone cable!

Which albums did you get? There is a rather vast gulf in the sound of all of the albums. But yes, Lars does like those cymbals. I wouldn't recommend St. Anger for a first listen to the band...

actually with most headphones you can't replace the cable unless you actually take it apart and do it manually. The senn 580/600's have an easily replaceable cord, but besides them I dont know of any.

And besides, the thing that changes the sound most dramatically for headphones is the amp.

Metallica "Metallica". My little brother has a couple CDs from the early 90's ("Ride the Lightning"? and another one). Maybe I'll burn those too. If I remember right there is a song on one of them with an extended bass solo that I liked quite a bit at the time.

Probably the song Orion on Master of Puppets.

So for an old guy watching TV 20 hours a day, lots of Fox News and auto racing, you think the infrared would be OK? The reviews I have read of the other wireless systems (900mhz, FM, and the Amphony 2.4 digital system) have all been negative.

Is that just because those guys were all audiopiles?

I will definitely agree with you there. My brother has invested a bit of money in headphones. He has the Senn 580 with a custom cable and a nice headphone amp. When I compared the built-in amp on his Sony SACD changer to the the dedicated headphone amp, the difference was incredible.

The strange thing was that the company he bought the cable from recommended breaking it in for about 24 hours. He left them playing at a relatively high volume all day. He said it made a difference. Who knows for sure....

Hmm. That was the one I figured you might like. Well, Master of Puppets is excellent (that's the one that's got Orion, the instrumental, on it).

Actually, Peter, I left them on at relatively normal listening volume (maybe a little higher than normal), but they are open headphones so it sounds like they're playing louder than they really are.

As to the cable (Cardas, well regarded in cable land), I stand by my assertion that the cable sounded much better after break in. In fact, when I first tried them on, I really couldn't detect much of a difference at all between the new and stock cables, and I pretty much felt like I'd been had. But I let them run in a day and then did an A/B comparison with the stock, and the Cardas was CLEARLY better. With the stock the treble was always a little sandy and the bass was a bit bloated, the treble with the Cardas is clean and more extended, and the bass is noticeably tighter and more defined. Plus the soundstage is much more cohesive and believable. Night and day, really. I don't think I could make myself believe imaginary differences that clear. The cable has pretty much addressed most of my nitpicks with the sound of the stock HD580 (though I still wish it had a little more kick to it).

Oooh, you're just asking for it 'round here. Cables AND break in. Didn't Peter warn you?

Oh boy...(starts frantically digging a foxhole)

EVERYONE TAKE COVER!!!!

Heh. I know, I know. I'm usually a skeptic of cables and break in on cables, but I swear it happened this time!

*puts on flame-retardant suit*

Uhh... what's the difference between night and day?

Welcome Adam, and our sympathy over your recent traumatic experience with the headphone cord. However, I'd caution you that it might not be over. I've seen all too many instances which began with something simple like that and developed into situations where audiophiles have spent all their money on high-end power cords and quit their jobs so that they'd have adequate time to supervise the burn-in. Then, after hearing that everything did sound better, they reasoned that similar performance benefits would accrue by replacing all the cheap power cords on everything in the house. Such things as a quieter vacuum cleaner, yet cleaner carpets, were reported. An especially poignant incident I experienced involved a good friend who bought a MagicPower Cord for his oven. He reported that the food developed subtle flavors and aromas he'd never experienced in his life and now invites us over frequently for dinner. He also prepares some food in an entry-level oven and pleads after serving both:"Can you taste the difference?". We smack our lips, nod and smile.

This doesn't have to happen to you, Adam, and since we're apparently of the same or at least closely-neighboring ethnic background, I feel a special responsibility. Although there are Audio Re-education Camps to which audiophiles can be committed upon application to the Probate Court, that shouldn't be necessary in your case. Peter seems like a pretty level-headed guy, and I assume Dr. Mark is as well. If they'd take some seemingly harsh measures that were for your own good, this can be worked out. You'd have to be confined in a room where they would take turns in reading to you several hours every day from basic physics and electrical engineering texts, with additional emphasis on the metallurgy of copper. Meals could be brought in(assuming that you were showing satisfactory progress)and sleep would also be permitted(it wouldn't be necessary to administer the orexins)in that case. Your family can help. Trust them . Good luck.

I AM amused.

Hehe, I suppose I was asking for this. It's too bad I don't have the stock cable anymore, as I gave it to another headfier (as we headphone geeks call each other) whose stock cable broke, or I could let Ken and Peter compare it to the Cardas themselves and hear the truth.


Be not afraid, JohnK, for I have not caved in to the voodoo of power cords and getting my cd player/amp/preamp/toaster oven modded to accept third party power cords. I'm sure you can probably hear *some* minor differences between your run of the mill 18awg power cord and a big beefy 10awg power cord made from ultra high purity silver with a special double braided geometry, teflon coating and the dust off a pixie's wings, but unfortunately pixie dust is rather expensive these days.

And I'm not all that impressed with all these cable manufacturers making these claims of the heavens opening to those who try their cables. Case in point, my main interconnects are a 1/2 meter pair of Outlaw PCAs running from my cdp to my amp. I recently ordered a 2 foot run of Signal Cable Analog Two interconnects to see if I could hear any differences. Both of these cables cost ~$50, and from what I've gathered from forum posts and reviews, the Signal Cable is supposed to be a giant killer and clearly better than the Outlaws. I've actually got a fairly good test system for this - my headphone amp has two inputs, and my sacd player has two outputs, so I can hook up two sets of interconnects and simply flip the input switch on the back of the amp to do quick a/b comparisons. So I let the cables ...(wait for it)... burn in for a couple days and tested it out. I think I might hear a slightly better soundstage with the Signal Cables, but to be honest, if someone were to give me the dreaded double blind test, I couldn't tell you which is which. They sound pretty much the same to me. I can't detect any tonal differences, any increase or decrease in resolution, and I'm ready to accept that the possible soundstage improvement I noticed was merely the power of suggestion and/or wishful thinking. So maybe I wasted $50, but at least I'm now certain that I don't have to spend money on anything other than source/amplification and speakers/headphones.

excellent summation!

So that's what you spend all that time in your room doing? I had no idea.

Anyway, getting back to the subject at, um, ear.... Now, what I'm about to say is not my personal belief. I'm just repeating something I read in a few different places. JohnK mentioned the metallurgy of copper -- apparently hinting at the fact that copper's properties do not change after hours and hours of current flowing through it.

I have heard that cable break-in has more to do with the dielectric / insulation than the metal. I guess the dielectric somehow "relaxes" and interacts with the magnetic field caused by those electrons moving through the wire.

Is there any remote possibility that this is even the teensiest bit plausible?

Electrical engineers tell us no, Peter, but just to be safe I soak all my cables, including the 16ga lampcord, in whisky for about an hour before putting them into service so that I'm confident that any dielectric or insulation is sufficiently relaxed. Also, while Adam's response was encouraging, you and your father should watch him closely for any signs of backsliding so that you can do what's right.

I'm tempted to buy another stock cable just so Peter can verify that there is in fact quite a difference between the two...

What's our father have to do with anything?

Well, I admit the living situation might be confusing. Yes, I live with my brother. The only other person in the house is my wife. In another 3.5 months, I'll have a different answer.