Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo New Poster, Future Axiom Owner

Greetings.

I am in a position financially to finally buy a nice home audio system for my apartment. My best friend and roommate in college (about six years ago) had a B&W speaker setup with Yamaha electronics, and it seemed very good at the time, but I never really took the time to evaluate his setup. His audio system is the only one I've ever experienced, so I began my research at the B&W website. I was looking at their 704/703 speakers (at $2200/3000 per pair, respectively) and then started reading reviews at Audioreview.com. After reading several reviews of B&W's speakers, I simply clicked the "Review" button at the top of the Audioreview page and selected Floorstanding Speakers. I was immediately overwhelmed with what seemed like hundreds of different speaker companies, each with dozens of speakers in varying price brackets. How is one supposed to research such a range of speakers? Fortunately for my sanity, I came across some reviews of the Axiom M22ti, and my curiosity was piqued. I ended up reading plenty of reviews of many Axiom products, and my search has brought me to this site.

My objectives: Clarity, above all else, but within my price range. Clarity and affordability. I am looking for a speaker setup that will give me accurate musical reproduction. I am the kind of guy that wants to hear every detail in the recording. At the same time, I can only spend so much, and B&W's top-range Nautilus is sixty-thousand dollars.

I will be using these speakers primarily for music, but I am also a self-titled film critic. Even though my audio setup will mostly provide musical playback, I still want to enjoy the full experience of the Movies when I play a DVD.

My budget is $4000-5000 USD. This must include the entire setup: Speakers, reveiver, source, cables, etc.

My listening room is 19Lx13Wx8H. Due to the floorplan of my apartment, the main front speakers will be firing across the 13W dimension, and the speaker/couch setup will be at one end of the 19L dimension, not in the middle. I have absolutely no idea how this will affect acoustics. At the opposite end of the 19L dimension my listening chamber also opens into a kitchen, which adds another eight feet onto the lengthwise dimension of the listening area.

After reading many reviews as well as threads on this forum, I have narrowed my search down to a few options:.

1. Epic 60.350. $2340 USD

Pros: Price, performance.

Cons: "Only" a VP100 center channel. "Only" an EP350 sub.

2. M60s, QS4, VP100, HSU VTF-3 MK3. $2448 USD

Pros: Cost-effectiveness, with what appears to be an awesome sub for the money based on this forum's recommendations.

Cons: "Only" QS4 surrounds, "Only" VP100 center.

3. M60s, QS8s, VP100, HSU VTF-3 MK3. $2560 USD

Same as option 2 with better surrounds.

4. M60s, QS8s, VP150, HSU VTF-3 MK3. $2713 USD

Same as option 2 with better surrounds and center.

5. Epic 60.500. $3010 USD

Pros: Better center channel, awesome sub. This looks like an awesome setup.

Cons: Cost. Is the extra money REALLY worth the the better sub and center? The VP150 seems like the obvious choise for large rooms, which mine is not. The EP500 looks like a sweet sub for fast, accurate, clean bass; is it really THAT much cleaner than the EP350? The price difference is significant (for me).


These five options represent a variety of quality at slightly different price points. I'm really leaning towards options 1, 3, or 5. They each offer the same mains and surrounds, but they differ on the centers and subs.

Option 1 clearly has the best price, but it offers the sloppiest bass. I want clean, accurate bast for my music pleasures. Will the EP350 offer enough of what I'm looking for? Is the additional cost of option 3 worth the increased bass depth and clarity? And what of option 5? It supposedly offers the the tightest bass along with the sweet surrounds and center channel, but is the sound quality better enough to justify the extra cost?

Thus is my quandary, and I haven't even gotten started on the electronics!

I'll leave my Receiver/Source questions to another post. For now, help my pick out my speakers. I'm currently leaning towards the Epic 60.350, but I certainly haven't ruled out other options as long as they fit my budget. Keep in mind, my budget is $4000-5000, INCLUDING the Receiver/Source/Amp/Wiring.

Welcome Wayward Son,

According to everything I've read on these forums, all of the systems you have been researching will do more than ample justice to your auditory senses.

Spend $400 on an integrated receiver, $300 on a DVD player, $100 on cables (including 12 guage speaker wire from Home Depot). This leaves you with $3200 to $4200 for your electro-acoustic transducers.

Buy as much speaker as you can afford. Speaker upgrades are very expensive and you never know where you may move next. It could be into a big home. Also speakers are the weakest link in the audio chain so make them as strong as you can possibly muster.

You can read about room dimensions here.

I can also tell you that you will be very, very pleased with Axiom. Good luck and please keep us posted.

Well, I'll try to give you a little input.

First of all, depending on where you live, you might check the "Audition" thread in the "Hearing Things" section. Page 1 of that thread has a list of people willing to give you an audition. If you don't see anyone, start a new thread, or send a PM to Amie or Andrea at Axiom, they might be able to help.

Auditioning Axioms is what sold me. I've owned the Axiom line for over 3 years now, and I truely think they are one of the best "bang for the buck" speakers out there. They are a true "audiophile" speaker that are in a new league from the ones you'll find in retail chain stores.

Anyway, back to the B&W's real quickly. If you do a search for B&W in this forum, you will find lots of threads on comparisons. B&W is a very nice brand, but like you said, very $$$. Before I purchased my Axioms, I spent a lot of time demoing B&W's at a local family owned "high end" store. I was interested in the 703's at one point, but the price was a little to steep for my budget at the time.

I recently upgraded to Axiom m80's, but prior to that owned the m60's for 2 years. In my opinion, the m60's are as good, if not better than the 703's in overall performance and sound.

One thing you said that exactly describes Axioms was "Clarity, above all else, but within my price range. Clarity and affordability. I am looking for a speaker setup that will give me accurate musical reproduction. I am the kind of guy that wants to hear every detail in the recording." You hit the nail right on the head with this statement. Axioms are designed to give you a very flat frequency response across the entire spectrum, and they will not color the sound, they are very neutral. If there is one thing they DO, that is faithfully reproduce the recording as it was engineered.

Now, this can be a bad thing for some people, as not all music cd's are engineered with high quality standards. I've got some cd's from some of my 70's and 80's bands that don't sound as good, but that is not the Axiom's fault, just a crappy recording. High quality music will make your jaw hit the floor, and maybe bring a tear to your eye.

For surrounds, definately go for the Qs8's over the Qs4's, they handle more power, have bigger drivers, and better overall performance. In my opinion, the Q series surrounds are the best surround speaker out there right now.

I can't comment on other brand subs, as I've only owned Axiom's 350, 500, and now 600 subs. It was important to me to get a matching set, in regards to finish (color).

The 350 used to be the top of the line for Axiom, and it still is a very good sub. My first room was similar in size to yours, and the 350 did a very good job. I then moved down to the basement which is a much bigger room. the 350 did ok, but the upgrade to the 500 was much worth the money. The 500 and 600 are a different technology being DSP, which allows them to go much lower. Besides they have 500 and 600 watt amps on board. They really will make the hair on your legs stand up.

As for the center, I've never owned the vp100, but others hold in in high regard. You could probably go either way as your room is nice sized, but not huge either. I really like my VP150.

Keep in mind you can order from the Factory Outlet on the "Store" page if your not in a huge hurry. Most of us take that path to save the extra 10%. All of my speakers have come from the FO, and I've never been able to find a single blemish or nick anywhere. Keep in mind they are still brand new speakers and carry the same warranty. Axiom just has a pretty stiff quality control process during manufacturing, even the smallest microscopic nick heads off to the outlet.

Also keep in mind when you order 5 or more of any item from Axiom you also get 5%. Adding in the 10% from the FO, might help you out.

good luck and welcome.

Son, another welcome. First, about your location in the room. If you could be in the center, that would be better, but as long as you leave more than about a foot of distance between the outside M60 and the side wall, that should be okay. Since you're working with the 13' dimension, I assume that you'll be sitting very close to the back wall, so a suitable location for the QSs would be about 6' up on the back wall and widely separated, since they're side surrounds, despite being mounted on the back wall.

As to the exact speaker complement, keep in mind the 10% and 5% discounts which Randy mentioned, when accommodating your budget. Two specific points I'll make is that you consider a vertical M22 center for wider and smoother horizontal dispersion, if it can fit into your room arrangement and that if possible you fit the EP500 into the budget. I've had one for about four months now and can give it the strongest of recommendations.

Welcome! Above all else, Axiom speakers have superb clarity and balance. If you like the way B&W 703's sound, then you'll probably like M60's. As Sirquack says, an audition would serve you well, but don't be discouraged if there's no one nearby. I have ordered all of my Axiom speakers sight-unheard and am very happy.

Your $5k budget, does that include a TV? If yes, then I'd say to decide what TV you want, then look at what's left for the rest of the components. Not that the audio side isn't as important, but features and prices of TV's vary so wildly depending on what you need. If you're happy with a 27" SDTV for $300, great - that leaves lots of $$$ for stereo. But if you need a 50" flatpanel HDTV, that's going to leave quite a bit less for stereo and will affect what you can afford.

That said, check out the factory outlet here. 10% off because it's from the outlet, plus another 5% if you order 5 or more pieces. A VP150 + 2QS8's + 2M60's set from the outlet is about $1,700 after all discounts, and that's one heck of a setup. Don't fear ordering from the outlet, most folks report that if they even have any cosmetic flaws, they are too small to notice unless you're combing the finish with a magnifying glass. Axiom guarantees that they are sonically perfect, so no worries there.

Are you planning to live in the apartment for awhile? I ask because the EP500 is a *monster* sub, and might be too much if you have neighbors. Seriously, this thing is a foundation-shaker and will probably not make your neighbors happy . You can *always* turn it down, of course, and then if/when you have your own space you already have a fantastic sub. Definitely take a look at subs from HSU and SVS if you're not going to go the EP500 route. HSU & SVS make some very nice subs in the $500-$800 range that are probably just a bit more bang-for-the-buck than the EP350.

For around $4,249 you could put together an Emotiva seperates MMC + LPA system ($1,499), the Axiom speakers mentioned above ($1,700), cables & wire from BlueJeansCables.com or Monoprice.com ($200), and an SVS PCI+ 25-31 sub ($850). That, IMHO, is one *HECK* of a strong system that will keep you in sonic bliss for years and years.

If we've got to account for a TV too, replace the Emotiva stack with a decent Denon,Yamaha, or <insert your favorite brand> AV receiver for $500. Pick up a 42" plasma for $1500ish, throw in a couple-hundred dollar DVD/CD player from eCost, and you're right at $5k.

I'd like to state that this website uses a bizarre format for a forum/message board. Why not a simple, all-inclusive "Reply" button at the botton? Why must I reply to individual messages? Axiom should look to examples such as the Miata.net or OCForums.com message boards for examples of efficient, user-friendly forum layouts!

You know, just in case somebody is listening.

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I haven't actually listened to the 703; to clarify, my friend had a B&W setup (not 700's) and that prompted me to visit the B&W website, where I researched the 704/703 speakers.

Thanks for the tip on the factory outlet. I don't mind waiting a few weeks for a ten-percent savings.

Peter: My budget does not include a TV. I'm currently using a Sony Wega 27" projection unit. It's only two years old and will work for the forseeable future. A larger Plasma would be a nice future upgrade for home theatre, but for now I'm focused on the sound. I think I've decided that I want the Epic 60.350 setup, purchased through the outlet channel for a price of $2107.10 USD. That looks like plenty of speaker for my room. Everything I've read about the M60s tell me that they are perfect for me (really don't need the M80s). Everything I've read about the QS8 tell me that they are superb and well worth the cost over the QS4. The reviews of the VP100 illustrate that it will be great for my room, that the additional cost for the VP150 isn't necessary. The only thing left is the sub, but I think that EP350 will suit me fine; perhaps I will upgrade it in a couple years.

So that leaves the electronics. Unlike speakers, receives, amps and sources are difficult to research. Each company has made literally dozens of each unit, and finding which one best suits my needs and budget could take six months. I've seen lots of reccomendations of the following brandes: Denon, Rotel, Yamaha, Pioneer, and a couple others I forget. Here are my needs: 5.1 (I don't see myself ever NEEDING 7.1), quality, enough power (preferabbly a bit more than necessary) to drive the entire setup, and ergonomics (ease of use, layout of buttons and menus... while the sound quality is the most important, good ergonomics make any gadget that much more pleasurable to use). I see that Axiom is offering Sherwood Newcastle products, but I can't find much information. If I pick the above speaker setup and the SD871 source with the R-871 receiver, my total through Axiom comes to $3815.20 USD. That doesn't include cables, but it looks like a great setup at a price well within my budget. Are there other electronics out there that offer similar quality with lower cost, or higher quality at the same cost? For the same money, what can I get that is better than Sherwood-Newcastle? Keep in mind that I'd also like a large-volume CD changer, as long as the quality and sound clarity are high, because such changers are very convenient.
Additionally, I'd prefer all the electronics to come from the same company. Although the sound is the most important objective, aesthetics are awlways a factor when spending this kind of money (which happens to be quite a lot for me). For personal OCD reasons, I'd prefer that all the electronics match one another.

You obviously are not familiar with UBB Thread boards.

Obviously!

Take a look at outlaw audio. They also have combo deals for pre/pro,amp,sub. It dose not hurt to look at all types of systems for your needs. I really love my axioms with my outlaw 5.1 set-up. I have had no problems with the 80s,150, qs8s. The sub size was one thing i had to consider in placement for my room. I'm sure the axioms subs are kick***, but could not afford price difference when buying. You will not go wrong with the axioms. Take your time and gain your knowledge, you will not be sorry. GOOD LUCK.

Wayward, I just got my first Axiom speakers (pair of M80)today and I say wow ! It sounded like everything that I was reading about here. I also own Outlaw gear. Their model 990 preprocessor is a steal given the price. I also bought two Outlaw monoblock amps this week just to drive the M80 speakers. They are setup. I spent countless hours researching and this is my first attempt to go with separates. I still own the Nakamichi receiver which will drive my surround and possibly the center speakers. Those speakers will also end up being Axiom fairly soon (hopefully once I can digest the two mains). Good luck. Happy searching !