Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Denon 3805 out 4806 in.

My Denon 4806 finally arrived today. I swapped it with my 3805 but will have to wait until tonight or tomorrow to get everything calibrated.
It certainly is one nicely built piece of equipment, and has about every bell and whistle imaginable.
I'm anxious to see how the Audyssey MultEQ XT compares to my old Denons mic setup, the sound quality of SACD and HD movies through HDMI, and how THX Ultra2 Cinema mode compares to Dolby and DTS.
I'm sure it will take me awhile to figure out everything else this receiver will do, but for those interested I'll post my impressions in the next day or so.

I can't wait to hear your feedback.

Congratulations. That looks like a really nice machine.

I wish that Denon would equip a low power (say 50W/channel) model with all these bells and whistles for a price of around $500.

I, as well, am rather anxious to hear your feedback on the 4806. Congratulations on the purchase!

I, too, am really interested in how the Audyssey system works out. In theory, it sounds great. I'm hoping it proves the same in actual use.

I spent a couple hours tonight playing around with the 4806 getting it set up and doing a some listening tests.
Even though I have a long ways to go with getting through the manual and finding out what this receiver is capable of, I'll share some of my initial impressions.
The Audyssey MultEQ far exceeded my expectations, I did the measurements at six points around the room, let it calculate and saved the results. Before putting on a movie I ran test tones through the receiver and checked the results from the main listening position with my SPL meter, all 7 speakers were dead on at 78db.
Next was the most important part of the test, watching a movie, I put the Blu-ray DVD Kingdom of Heaven into my ps3, figured I might as well listen to some TruHD through hdmi for the first time also. The first thing I noticed besides the incredible sound, was that my Qs8's had all but disappeared in the room, I must have glanced at them 5 times knowing I could hear the sound around me but couldn't pinpoint them like I was able to before with my previous setup.
The second thing that really impressed me about the Audyssey is that I can now sit anywhere in my living room and feel I'm in the center of the movie, regardless of if I'm sitting at the far left or right not even in line with the speakers. I played parts of several different movies in several sound formats and was impressed each time.
So far I'm a really happy camper with this receiver, tomorrow I'll play a few SACD's , listen to some movies and compare the THX surround modes to DD and DTS. and try and learn what else this receiver can do.
The only bad thing is the AC switched outlets on the receiver aren't getting power, I think UPS did a little to much handling and knocked something loose, so I have to manually turn on my amp instead of letting the switched outlet in my Pure AV and receiver do it. If anyone knows of a device that can do the same thing I'd appreciate some recommendations.

Hey Michael,

That is very encouraging feedback. Sounds like the Audyssey is doing exactly what they claim on their website. I've been thinking about upgrading my Denon 2805 to one of the models with the Audyssey. I really love my Denon, maybe it is upgradeitis getting me again.

Hey Michael,

I forgot to ask something. Does the manual give recommendations on where you take your other measurements? I know you start with the primary seat, but for the other measurements do you sit in the other seats, or do you pick spots around the room outside of the seating area?

Randy

I use my Belkin pf60 to turn on my amps. If the amp is of any reasonable power I would think it would be too much draw to plug it into a receiver.

Very nice, Michael! When I first read about Audyssey, I hoped it wasn't a gimmick they charged more for but had little effect. Sounds like it does exactly what it's supposed to do. Very encouraging. Thanks for the report.

Randy,
The manual gives examples of possible layouts for the measurements. You are correct that you start with the primary seat, the rest of the measurments are taken from the actual listening positions, with my receiver you can place the mic in up to 6 additional positions. I used the primary and 5 additional spots on the couches and recliner that run in a semicircle with one measurment in front of the primary position to form an ellipse.

Lorenzo, my amp is also plugged into my Belkin but unless you have a remote tied into an outlet that stands by like a receiver until it is turned on, how do you have the amp turning on without turning on and off the Belkin.

Thanks, did you pick up the Denon locally at a retail store or purchase online? When I purchased my 2805 years ago, American Electronics had an employee pricing weekend so I got a pretty good deal.

I picked up the Denon new on eBay from a home installer who's clients changed their mind about their setup, he sent the original receipt from Magnolia so I'm still under factory warranty and saved $1500.00 on the purchase It took me about a month searching around until I found a deal I liked.

WoW!!! I need to keep my out for deals like that.

Do you have any BR 6 / 7 channel disks to test the discrete LPCM?

I’m glad Audysey is working out for you. I was getting lonely being the only one to tout its virtues. I love it. Be real careful where you put the mic though cause your readings can go in the weeds. When I first did it, I took great pains to get the mic at ‘ear’ level. Well that’s below the back of the couch. Then I read somewhere that that is a no-no and the mic should be above the back of the seating area. I re did the measurements and it did make a huge difference. (to the better)

Too bad this unit was discontinued. I do not want the CI version.

Mike, everything I have right now in BR is either 5.1 DTS HD or DD HD. The LPCM does sound incredible in HD.
I did all my measurments a little above ear level on the couches and am really happy with the results. There is an upgrade on the Denon site for the 4806 that I downloaded to make the Audysey sound even better, but I doubt if I'll feel like moving the unit back out to my computer to implement the upgrade, it already sounds great.
Tonight I'll spend some more time listening and tweeking, I may even take the amp out and see how everything sounds just running off the 4806.

Congrats on the 4806 purchase! This is quite an amazing piece of equipment and does take a while to learn all of it's features. I have been using the onboard amps and have not found their limits driving my M80's, I can't imagine what they sound like with external amps! With regards to the Audyssey upgrade, not all 4806's need it, only the earlier models. Mine did and it made a world of difference with my system. Installing the upgrade can be hazardous (to the unit), so if you do choose to go that route, be careful. The 4806 thread at AVS has a lot of information on this subject as well as many others. If you have the patience to wade through it, a lot can be learned. Have fun!!

I had my 3805 set up the exact same way, since the switched outlets on the 4806 aren't getting power I was wondering if there is another workaround or device. But it all may be moot if I decide to get rid of the amp and give myself some more room in my rack.

I’m assuming you’re a game player seeing how you have both 360 and PS3?

Resistance, Fall of Man for the PS3 is supposedly a discrete 7.1 channel game. This game would appear to be the staple test game for these new HDMI receivers at AVS.

I bought the game just for testing and have to admit it’s pretty cool. I’ve tried playing it a few times and quickly get dispatched by monsters in the opening battle, but my 13 year old gaming Jedi master son gives this game his ‘expert’ coolness approval. It is pretty cool watching the little fart kill monsters on an eight foot 1080P screen at about 90 db’s.

…..but anyway, my receiver will not do a dam thing audio wise with this game but play it in 5.1 M-Channel PCM. It will not even matrix the game to 7.1. I’ve heard that if the receiver processes this correctly, the display will show 7.1 M-channel PCM.

Two other good ‘test’ dvd’s are Decent and Crank on Blue Ray. They are both discrete L-PCM 6.1.


The only down side to Lossless sound is standard dvd’s sound like crap now. Between the sound and video, I’m a hopeless HD addict.

What kind of amp do you have? Sounds like a shame to me as I still think that a good stand alone power amp is more efficient then the amps in most receivers.

Very interesting, Michael. Yes, the majority of Audyssey users seem to be quite satisfied with the results. The Denon material indicates that you can use up to eight measurement locations on the 48s and 43s(six on the 38s and 28s), so you have plenty of room for experimenting further, if you want to. Enjoy.

Mike, I've got Resitance and Crank, initial setup I'm only getting 5.1 PCM through both and no DTS at this point through PCM, although I am able to get all 7 channels going. I'm at about page 30 of 150 in the manual so hopefully I'll figure out if it's just limited to DD and THX through PCM or if I can set it up for DTS 6.1. Another thing that's different is in the past I've always kept the room EQ off, but the 4806 has an Audyssey mode and so far it sounds pretty darn good with it on. I figure its going to be another week before I get this receiver figured out.

Lorenzo, I'm using a Aragon 2005, 5 channels at 200wpc, I believe the 4806 has amplifiers for each channel and at 140 wpc with the 80's I would be losing about 90 wpc, probably not significant unless I crank it to Randy's levels

John, Thanks, What I really found that was amazing to me about the Audyssey, is that I can sit at the far left or right in the room with the Qs8's literally next to my ears and I still feel like I'm sitting in the middle of the room. The setup also uses a pretty cool test tone when it's analyzing the room, it almost sounds like it's using sonar to bounce off the walls.

HomeDad, With regards to the onboard amps of the Denon 4806, the rating of 140 wpc is at 8 ohm. Have you been able to find any information as to what the output is at 4 ohm for the M80's? If you run the Denon on "Pure Direct" where all auxillary circuits are shut down in order to direct more power to the two front channels, what is the calculated/estimated output at that point? I have not been able to find information on this as of yet, but I would think it could be approaching 200 wpc.

Bud, by normal calculations I think the ratings for the 80's at 4ohms on the 4806 should be 210 wpc. I'm not positive about this, but I have all the speakers going through the receiver now and it plays plenty loud.

When I originally bought this reciever, I thought I would use it as a pre-pro and use external amps eventually. It has been several years now and I still am using the reciever only and am content with the results. There just doesn't seem to be a lot going on with most recordings in the rear speakers of surround to warrant a huge amount of power to drive them, at least in my experience.

If it helps, when I bought my reciever, Kal Rubinson was reviewing the 4806 in Stereophile magazine and he had some useful insights into the strengths and weaknesses of the unit. This is one article http://stereophile.com/musicintheround/306mitr/index.html I know there is an earlier article, but I can't remember the month. This was the better article of the two.
Towards the end of the article, Kal compares the onboard amps of the Denon with his Bryston 9B-ST amp in a positive light

Another article by Kal Rubinson re: Denon 4806 http://www.stereophile.com/musicintheround/106mitr/

This article was done before the Audyssey firmware update was implemented.

Bud, thanks for the articles, I was using my amp to drive everything but the rear surrounds, at this point I have the 4806 driving everything and it sounds great, I'm kinda leaning in the direction that with a receiver of this quality an amp is not really neccessary other than to give a small amound of extra power and save some wear on the Denon's amps.
I'm very happy with the way the Audyssey is performing, so I'm not really keen on pulling out the receiver and doing an upgrade that I may have a potential problems with.
Are you using the Audyssey room EQ function or any of the other room EQ functions?

You may have to install some new firmware to get the 7 channel PCM to work. I read that at AVS when I was all fired up to buy the 4806.

My favorite EQ setting is in the Audysey mode. I wasn’t all that impressed with flat or front. But man I can sure tell a difference when I turn it off. It’s quite amazing to me what a little bump here and there with an EQ do.

In reading Denon's website it takes about this model having THX setup AND Audyssey setup?

Don’t know about Denon, but my Marantz THX set up is not much. You just select the surround back distance apart (wide or close), select the number of SB’s, and then make sure the fronts are set to small. It’s pretty anti-climatic to say the least.

I haven’t decided if I like THX post processing or not. I most definitely would not buy any receiver on the merits of having THX. The THX Ultra cert is worthy I suppose, but not the processing peace.

HomeDad, I essentially use the Audyssey for most of my audio listening. Audyssey does tone down the LFE settings quite a bit though. If you press the "Enter" button on the remote to quickly review the Audyssey settings, you can make changes to any of the channels to see if you like them better. I frequently boost the sub setting about 6db to my liking. When you do this, the Audyssey light on the display will turn red, which can be annoying. To get around the red light issue you can just set the "EQ" to manual. This keeps the remaining Audyssey settings as default with any adjustment you have made intact. That way, you get the best of both worlds and no annoying red light.

Also, you can save a "Custom" setting by making any changes to your default Audyssey settings, then saving them. This is done, after you determine your custom settings, i.e. changing your crossover point, changing your front settings (for M80) to small, and any channel volume settings and possibly using the PLII x Cinema setting for movies to get max LFE. Then, press "setup" on the lower pannel of the remote, select #6-"Option Setup", scroll down to #7-"Setup Memory/Lock", then select "User Memory", select "Save". This, saves your settings for future use.

Then, to reset your Audyssey settings for audio listening, simply select "Setup" on the remote, select "Auto Setup/Room EQ", scroll down to 1-5 "Parameter Check", scroll down to "Restore" then left click "Yes". Your back in buisness.

I mainly use these two modes of listening for music and movies. With my Custom setting I max out all speaker settings, crossover at 80, fronts and center to small etc. Just blows the house down with the EP600... sorry three pigs

The 4806 is similar, but under THX setup, "Boundary Gain Compensation" it has a selection that you can use to enter if you have a THX Ultra2 Sub or a Sub that extends to 20Hz.

Mike , I'll have to look into that update, after playing around until about 4:00 am with the receiver I think I have most of the stuff worked out, when the Denon is using the PCM the front display is different than when using a optical input, it doesn't tell you if it's DTS or Dolby unless you get into the onscreen menu, a little confusing but once you hear the Tru HD sound it's like the old sound formats had a veil over them. The one that had me really stumped for awhile was when I played Crank on BR, I wasn't getting the 6.1 PCM show on the display, then after going into the ps3 sound menu for HDMI I realized there is no linear 6.1 sound option

Randy, there is no THX setup option like Audyssey that I have found, but there are about 5 THX options for sound that do some things that DTS and DD don't, the one I found most intersting that I haven't had any time yet to do any critical listening is that in the THX mode it will Timbre match the speakers for seamless panning.

Thanks Michael,

I just saw this on the Denon website and it confused me as it mentioned THX setup, followed by Audyssey setup in a different section.

HDMI 1080p switching
1080p Upscaling
PlaysForSure Ethernet Connectivity
DDSC-Digital surround circuitry
Pure Direct mode and AL24 Processing Plus
DENON LINK III, enabling high-speed, high-grade digital signal transmission
THX® Ultra2 certified· Auto Set-Up/Room EQ
XM Radio Ready
Audyssey MultEq Auto-Setup/Room Eq
One of two world's first receivers to offer scaling for 480p DVD sources

HomeDad, With regards to the THX setup, if you look under Setup, #2 option is "Speaker Setup", scroll down to #7 it has "THX Audio Setup" as a selection. Not much there though... Might be different on the CI version .

Bud, maybe I was being to optomistic in thinking it would only take me a week to figure this receiver out

Yea, I have had mine a while and I am still learning new things, some good, some disappointing. Overall I am very satisfied with this unit. Do you have the CI version?

Quote:

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Do you have the CI version?

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No, I didn't need any of the extra stuff the CI had.

Bud, there don't appear to be 4 ohm power lab measurements of the 4806 available online, and subjective comments on power shouldn't be given much weight on a point controlled by objective test standards. The closest info of value in the matter may be Clint's 4306 measurements in his Audioholics review. The numbers appear to be impressive enough(click on graph to enlarge)and adding 5-10% might be a fair estimate for the 4806. In any case, there wouldn't appear to be a need to seriously doubt that the 4806 had enough maximum power capacity for the vast majority of home applications without adding separate amplification.

Thank you John, Very helpful information. As I mentioned before, I have not found the limits of the 4806 with respect to driving volume, but I haven't listened to too much stuff above -5 to +5 volume settings.

That's a decent amount of power the 4306 is putting into 4-ohms, even if the 4806 had only a 5% increase of the 4306 it sounds like the difference of using my Aragon amp at 300wpc in 4ohms and using the Denon's amps would be relatively insignificant.

Crank doesn’t have a PCM option?? Are you sure? I rented this one from Net Flicks so I don’t have it on hand but I distinctly remember is having this option cause I was experimenting with this disk. Some of these dam BR disks have weird navigation menus. I have the Prestige and you have to push the stupid select button to get it to advance to each choice. I thought the disk was bad and watched it in regular DTS. Then I had to watch it again after I figured out the menu and got the PCM track to play. (not a bad movie, but not all that great either)

Remember, all these BR’s with the Uncompressed tracks will not show up as DD or DST. The PS3 is doing the decoding and sending the receiver an unpacked PCM data stream. The display will show what the stream is (5.1, 6.1 7.1). When you select a DD, THX or DTS option, all the receiver is doing, is applying a post process matrix that you select.

I have my PS3 audio set up in Manual with every box checked and audio out as PCM. Then when I watch a movie that only has DTS or DD audio (and no PCM option), I go into the PS3 and change the output to auto. Some of the older disks don’t have PCM, like First Blood or The Searchers.

And if you ever want to know what the PS3 is sending your receiver, hit the square button and at the top of the screen you’ll see the info. – in case you didn’t know….

I’m pretty stoked for you Michael. The Lossless audio on these HD/BR disks is like going from WMA to SACD. You’re really going to enjoy the heck out of your system now.

Crank does have the 6.1 PCM option, in the manual sound setup on my ps3 there is no option for 6.1 linear PCM only 5.1, 7.1. as well as Dolby 5.1 and DTS 5.1, I also have every box checked. What was strange, when I played Crank and used the Square button to show the info, the ps3 was sending a 7.1 LPCM signal to my receiver.
And thanks for the other info. now I don't have to worry why the display on the receiver doesn't act the same as when an optical signal is going in.

No prob. My opologies, I mistook you earlier with the six channel thing. Now I'm curious and have to see if my PS3 has a six channel option.

Not that it matters much, but do you have the latest PS3 firmware installed?

I installed the lastest firmaware for the PS3 this weekend when I was setting up the 4806.
Jumping back from the other thread, that Toshiba XA2 looks like the perfect player for me, that's going on my shortlist, thanks for the heads up on that.