 Dedicated Theater Speakers
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I would like some inputs on which Axiom speakers would be best for my dedicated theater room. Primarily the speakers will be for home theater.
Should I go with the Epic 60.500 and save some money or go all out with the Epic 80.600?
It is isolated from sound by a room-in-room contruction, spec'd at 60dB attenuation. The room itself is about 2000 ft^3 in size.
I plan to use a Yamaha 2700 to power the speakers, but I haven't purchased it yet.
I plan to use the VP150 for center channel, and QS8 for sides and back, but I just can't pick the mains and subwoofer. Do I need the M60 or M80 and the EP500 or EP600?
I value my hearing so will not be cranking the volume up excessivily, the sound isolation is so I don't disturb the neighbors or sleeping kids when I watch movies.
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 Re: Dedicated Theater Speakers
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Welcome Kemet, Your room sounds awesome. Not that it has anything to do with your question, but could we get some more details about construction materials, finishing treatments, etc.? And we LOVE pictures here! The sonic signature of the 60's & 80's is very similar, except that the 80's will play louder, and have a little more low end. (Mostly beneficial for music) Since this will primarily be for movies, and you won't be listening at "Randy" (sirquack  ) levels, my thought would be to go for the 60/500 combo - but add an additional EP500. Not for more bass, but because it would really smooth out the bass response in the room. This setup would only be $356 more than the 80/600.
Shawn
Epic 80/600 + M3's + M3 Algonquins + M2 Computer + EP125
I think I'm developing an addiction.
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Re: Dedicated Theater Speakers
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Hi Kemet,
I have 4000 cubic feet with the Epic 80-600 and the 600 is definitely over-kill. I would suggest the 500. You can always try a second 500 at a future time if you don't have flat enough response throughout your listening space. What are your room dimensions and how far from the fronts will you be sitting? I sit 8 feet away from the M80s and I don't recommend sitting any closer than this.
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Re: Dedicated Theater Speakers
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I have a room of about the same size as your's and there are times that I think that my M60 fronts, VP150 center, and QS8 surrounds are MORE than enough. Of course, don't tell my wife... I would not go for anything less than the VP150 (No VP100) or QS8's (No QS4), but I probably could have gone less with the mains. I bought mine when I had them going into a much larger, non-dedicated area, so I needed to full more air volume with sound. With that said, I wouldn't trade my M60s for anything smaller, even if they are more than enough. The M60 product is at a great sweet spot in price/performance. I wasn't interested in the M50 and I am glad that I don't have bookshelf speakers (although I think that my wife would have rather had them)... I love low end sound, and don't want to rely on the sub to do all of the work, especially in music, which I listen to about 85% movies, 15% music. My sub is non-Axiom, so I can't help you out there, but I would be voting for the M60 set up. Of course, some people will tell you to get the most speaker that you can afford. There is some logic to that (if you move and make a larger theater, or if you never want to feel like you need to upgrade - yeah, like that will ever happen  ) but if you are like me, you live within a budget, and need to try to stick to it. You can use the money saved for something else, or heck, just not spend it and be that much more ahead for the next thing. Best of luck. When you decide what you want to do, let us all know. We are a curious bunch.
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Re: Dedicated Theater Speakers
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I am going to go ahead and suggest the system I currently have in an 1800 cu.ft. room. If you aren't going to listening to alot of music, and you don't care if the music you DO listen to is with a sub, then I think you would be MORE than happy with M22 mains, EP500 sub, QS8 surrounds, And an additional M22 vertically orientated for your centre channel (or a VP150 if you don't have room for a vertical M22). This would give you a seamless sound stage across the whole room. But for let's say, 80% movies, 20% music, my system is more than enough for me, I have yet to crank it to levels that the speakers can't handle, its just too loud...and the EP500 sub is a freaking monster, I have it around 7 o'clock (or less than 50%) of its capacity, and in some movies, the bass is so loud that you can't even talk to the person next to you, its great  . I can honestly say I don't know what an M60 tower speaker would add to my system, it sounds that good to me. This is with crossing over at 80hz on all channels to the EP500 sub. Not sure if you are on a budget, but you can save about $500 going with the M22 route.
Last edited by Hutzal; 05/04/07 01:48 PM.
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Re: Dedicated Theater Speakers
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Thank you for the welcome.
No finished pictures yet as the room is under construction. I don't know much details about all the layers of materials that are going into the construction, e.g. the type of foams, fiberglass, insulation, drywall, plywood thickness used but alot of mass and absorbtion is going in. Set of communicating solid doors to get in the room-in-room, and a seperate ventilation and AC system from the rest of the house.
The side and back walls will be with a dark burgundy cloth, and the ceiling and front wall will be a dark blue color. The screen is a 2.35 ratio 128 inch Carada, the projector will be at 3.8 meters with a Panamorph lens. Track lights on the ceiling and scones on the walls for accent. The stage and riser will be 25cm in height.
I prewired just for one sub up on the stage. To start I will be going with one subwoofer only, trying to optimize 2 subwoofer positions sounds difficult and would likely need to be symmetric. Atop the riser position in the back is out I think since the rear subwoofer would be firing into the seating there? so with 2 subwoofers I would have to put them in the left and right in the center of the room. I was hoping to have the subwoofer atop the stage to even better isolate it.
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Re: Dedicated Theater Speakers
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Hi Mojo,
Yes, I was wondering if the EP600 would be overkill for my sized space.
The room dimensions are approx 5.4 meters in length, 4.1 meters in width and 2.5 meters in height, which is approx 2000 ft^3.
The main seating position should be about 11 feet away from the screen, so maybe 9 feet from the mains then.
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Re: Dedicated Theater Speakers
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Considering the small Yamaha mini-bookshelfs I have now, I am sure too the M60's would be awesome. I don't claim to be an audiophile so if I won't notice the difference even side by side with a subwoofer than that's great.
I still have a few weeks before I need to order the speakers, but everyone's response is giving me a lot to mull over.
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Re: Dedicated Theater Speakers
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Quote:
I am going to go ahead and suggest the system I currently have in an 1800 cu.ft. room.
If you aren't going to listening to alot of music, and you don't care if the music you DO listen to is with a sub, then I think you would be MORE than happy with M22 mains, EP500 sub, QS8 surrounds, And an additional M22 vertically orientated for your centre channel (or a VP150 if you don't have room for a vertical M22).
This would give you a seamless sound stage across the whole room. But for let's say, 80% movies, 20% music, my system is more than enough for me, I have yet to crank it to levels that the speakers can't handle, its just too loud...and the EP500 sub is a freaking monster, I have it around 7 o'clock (or less than 50%) of its capacity, and in some movies, the bass is so loud that you can't even talk to the person next to you, its great . I can honestly say I don't know what an M60 tower speaker would add to my system, it sounds that good to me. This is with crossing over at 80hz on all channels to the EP500 sub.
Not sure if you are on a budget, but you can save about $500 going with the M22 route.
Hi Hutzal,
I did think about going with all M22's across the front, or even just with a M22 center. But with the screen and the stage only gives me about 60cm in height to work with.
Just for looks alone, I have decided to go with tower speakers for the front.
Definately, the consensus so far is that the EP500 will be more than adequate. As it is easier to place than the EP600 sizewise, good news for me
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Re: Dedicated Theater Speakers
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I sense that the M80 posse has not awakened from its slumber yet. As a new member, I have the duty to tell you that you must get the M80s. Really, either the 60s or the 80s are great speakers. The 80s are just more great. The EP500 should be sufficient for your needs, as others have said. Of course, sufficient isn't always enough...
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: Dedicated Theater Speakers
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M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
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Re: Dedicated Theater Speakers
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The 600 is smoother than the 500. If music listening was important to you, I’d say go for the 600. But seeing how this is a dedicated HT, the 500 would be OK. But, most movie sound tracks have a lot of music, so that’s your call…..If I were shopping for subs again; I’d opt for two 500’s.
The M60’s should also be just fine for a HT. The 80’s play a little lower, but you’ve got the sub. Again, for music, I’d go for the 80’s. For strictly HT, I’d go with the 60’s.
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Re: Dedicated Theater Speakers
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Quote:
the 500 would be OK.
Just OK!
You'll get by!
It'll do!
It's adequate!
It will crack your foundations!
The 500 is a great HT subwoofer! And musical too! IMHO.
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Re: Dedicated Theater Speakers
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Quote:
Hi Hutzal,
I did think about going with all M22's across the front, or even just with a M22 center. But with the screen and the stage only gives me about 60cm in height to work with.
Just for looks alone, I have decided to go with tower speakers for the front.
Definately, the consensus so far is that the EP500 will be more than adequate. As it is easier to place than the EP600 sizewise, good news for me
Kemet,
Since you are using a projector I would recommend what I have right now, which is an M2 above, and an M2 below the screen wired in parallel. This will create a "phantom" centre channel in the middle of your screen. All dialog will sound like it is coming from the middle of your screen. It sounds awsome to me, and it doesn't look too shabby either!
This pic below I have M3s above and below, I have since switched them for M2s, I can take a pic of the M2s if you want. Thats a 92" screen (16:9, not 2.35:1  ).
The M2s are noticably smaller, I will recommend M2s over M3s even with the tower speakers, the dialog is crisp and clear, moreso than the M3s.
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Re: Dedicated Theater Speakers
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There is definately something to be said about having matching LCR speakers. I would have the space under the screen to use M22 across. That way the tweeter level would all be the same, but below the screen across the stage.
The M60 and M80 have the 6.5" woofers, if when I listen to sound tracks on the movies will I miss any mid-bass compared to the M22?
From reading, the weakest link would be the VP150 as it compromises for placement ease?
How about M22 as LCR with a EP600 horitizontally positioned at the stage lip?
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Re: Dedicated Theater Speakers
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So your room is about 12.5 feet wide and I assume the front speakers will be positioned along the width rather than the length. I'm also assuming that when you say you will be 9 feet away from the mains that you mean 9 feet from the drivers.
If you will be sitting 9 feet away, you should probably have the fronts separated by 9 feet for a good image. If you toe them in, the drivers will be about two feet from the side walls. The recommendation is to have them 3 feet away from the sides at least. You might want to pull the fronts further into the room (look at brother Bob's set-up on the Wall of Fame) to reduce re-inforcement from the rear since they will be so close to the sides. You'll need to experiment with this but I am sure you will be able to make it sound right especially if you are planning to treat your wall surfaces.
You're going to have resonances to deal with at 45, 80 and 140 Hz in this smallish room (and multiples thereof). You'd benefit from bass traps and mid-range absorbers or maybe you have some cushy furniture and wall-hangings that will make things better. Let us know how it works out and of course we love to see photos.
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Re: Dedicated Theater Speakers
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They don’t have to be identical speakers across the front. The 22’s blend nicely with 80’s. I suspect they would with 60’s as well. Or, M2’s with 60’s would most likely work out OK too. Here’s my set up….  The 600 is mid wall to the right. I sure wish I would have bought two 500’s. They are much easier to place and two subs is always preferred over one.
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Re: Dedicated Theater Speakers
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I plan to put the left and right speaker at about 10 feet apart on the edge of the screen. This is a little close to the side walls, but it is the room I have to work with. When you have 2 center speakers do you power them off the same amp channel and hook up both the speaker wire to the same center terminal on the amp? Would that make the effective impedance 4Ohms for the M22's? A pair of M22s is about the same price as the VP150, so should I go with 4 M22s across the front, or would 1 VP150 be better? I think I will stick with the EP500, and later on add a second if I get that craving 
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Re: Dedicated Theater Speakers
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My room is only 12’ wide. The screen is 8’ wide. So you see that it works out OK in the picture. You would have the similar set up. I went with the 22’s for a center because the VP’s just don’t get the praise that the rest of Axiom’s speakers do. I’m happy with them as a center, but I don’t think I’d be happy using them for mains though. I’d go with towers if you can. And yes, the twin 22’s are both being ran off the center channel amp at 4 ohm.
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Re: Dedicated Theater Speakers
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Kemet,
as mdrew stated, the impedance is 4ohms for my M2s as well. I really think having 2 M22s would be overkill for your room size (I think its overkill for mdrew!!!!) However, if this is something you would want to pursue, please let us know how 4 M22s across the front sound!!!
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Re: Dedicated Theater Speakers
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How do you know it's overkill if you haven't heard it?
That statement always makes me laugh. I've used the 22's as mains, and I've used one 500 before.
I'm not going back to the little fellers. This isn't just about how loud a system is, it's about the SOUND.
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Re: Dedicated Theater Speakers
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I see your point. I am curious to know how different M60s would be from the M22s, but I am so happy with my M22s that I have no desire to find out. Ignorance is bliss in this case (and easy on my wallet).
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Re: Dedicated Theater Speakers
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600 more than way enough, one 500 would be good two better. if you are listening to greater than 50% music I would even venture too say 25% go with at least the 60's and if you have extra nothing wrong at all with the 80's. If you only play movies and the occasional cd as me then M22's with dual 500's are awsome. I have 80's and will not noway go less. QS8's all the way and I find nothing wrong with my VP150. My room is 14 x 18 speakers are 18" from wall 10' apart toed in and I have excellent sound stage ,to the point if I am listening to a Eagles DVD in Stereo or a dianna Krall CD and didn't know better, I would say the centre channel is on. totally flawless sound stage. but....ahem you need to upgrade that amp I would no doubt M80, VP150 QS8 and two 500's or HSU vtf3 mk3's. as for the sound proofing some sites for your reading pleasure: and don't confuse FRP with soundproofing note: fibreglass pink is not sound proofing http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.htmlhttp://www.acousticsciences.com/http://forum.studiotips.com/viewforum.php?f=8http://www.audioholics.com/education/aco...ent-perspectivehttp://www.studiotips.com/Also check this out http://forum.studiotips.com/viewtopic.php?t=48
Last edited by axiom_man; 05/07/07 03:58 PM.
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Re: Dedicated Theater Speakers
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Just to give an update, in another 4 weeks I will be moving in and ready to order the speakers. I have decided to go with vertically oriented M22s across the front, and will use just 1 vertical M22 for the center. They will be placed on the stage below the screen putting the tweeters at 65cm - 70cm height by my estimate. This is slightly below sitting ear level but not significantly. Will place the EP500 at the best position on the stage, and 4 QS8 for surround. Also I have on pre-order the Onkyo 805 which I hope will be the same if not better than the Yamaha 2700 I originally planned on. Can I send sound over HDMI and picture over component from the same source to the receiver since my projector doesn't have HDMI? I would assume that this works. About sound isolation, I didn't do the construction but it is 12.5mm/15mm double PB on outside wall, air gap, rigid fiberglass, 15mm PB/12.5 mm plywood/15mm PB sandwich on the inner wall. No pink fiberglass was harmed in it's construction Floating floor, decoupled celing typical of RWAR. Which material is recommened to seal air gaps in the conduits to the speakers and projector since the wires will not totally fill up the conduits? Thanks for reading.
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Here is a picture of the progress so far: 
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Can't tell much about the "progress," but your model is a doll!
Jack
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Re: Dedicated Theater Speakers
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The stage looks really good. That's going to be a very nice theater.
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
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Starting to look real good. What's under the stage? Insulation?
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Thank you for the compliments. The stage is stuffed with insulation, and the top is layered by plywood /rubber mat/ plywood. You can't see it in the picture but the stage is not nailed or screwed to the floor, and sits a few mm away from the walls (the molding makes it look like it is flush). I understand this will provide a good isolation base for my front speakers and subwoofer. I did the jump test on it and it was solid. The riser in the back of the theater is also filled with insulation and not attached to the floor or walls so hopefully I have my bases covered. The builder thinks I am crazy but that goes with the territory This photo is not as exciting since it lacks a model, but here is the back of the theater where you can see the communicating solid doors and the said riser. 
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Looking good.
Why are you concerned with plugging the conduits? I also curious why you didn’t terminate them in junction boxes?
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The electrical outlet junction boxes will be on the outside of the drywall and not imbedded in the wall for better soundproofing.
I was trying to ask about the speaker wire orange conduits or the projector wiring conduits, which the wires will not completely fill up, of course the wires will pass through a wall plate, but there will be a gaps between the wires and the tubing conduit sides that I should fill with something like silicone or acoutiscal caulk?
Also may I pass the video signal to a receiver with component and the audio signal by HDMI since my projector doesn't have HDMI yet?
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Re: Dedicated Theater Speakers
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Quote:
I was trying to ask about the speaker wire orange conduits or the projector wiring conduits, which the wires will not completely fill up, of course the wires will pass through a wall plate, but there will be a gaps between the wires and the tubing conduit sides that I should fill with something like silicone or acoutiscal caulk?
Whatever you fill it with, just make sure it doesn't chemically react with the wire's insulation.
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Re: Dedicated Theater Speakers
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The boxes will be flush mounted then? I’m having trouble visualizing that…. But if it’s that important to you to fill the conduits, you can use duct seal. In the trade it’s referred to as monkey sh*t. It’s almost like play doe, but thicker.
As far as your HDMI question goes, that really depends on the receiver you use. Some will only pass whatever comes in as HDMI, out HMDI; others will output video with HDMI or Component independent of the input.
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