Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo sound diff between MDF and "real wood"?

i was planning to buy M2v2 at the begining but then i found there is an option that i can "upgrade" it by using diff wood. Price is about $40 top of regular model. Then again i found it just the same price as M3v2.

here is my question, does "real wood" sound better over MDF in a tiny 11.5" x 7.5" x 8.5" box?? If it's not a big deal, should i go M3?

please, i would really appreciate that i can have some inputs before i place the order.

Mark
room: 10x10x8H (may move later 1~2yrs)
amp: denon1507 75wX7
sour: pc/Audigy SE 24bit 5.1 via Monster THX cable
main: Bose 161
sub: polk psw202 (modified)

It is my understanding that the wood series speakers are just a external wood veneer, just like the vinyl is a vinyl wrap. The internal speaker foundation is still MDF. Most speaker companies use MDF in the build process for better sound reasons.

that mean the diff is only they wrapping speaker by wood instead of vinyl?

That's my understanding also. MDF is more inert than wood leading to a more accurate sound.

Yes, this is not just Axiom, but most wood exterior finishes for speaker manufacturers are not solid wood through out.

Hi Na8c,

The real wood veneer is applied by hand in our custom shop and hand-finished, unlike the vinyl "wrap" which comes pre-applied to the MDF (medium-density fiberboard). Because custom real-wood veneer application is very labor-intensive, it costs more and there is a wait of some weeks, because each order is custom-assembled for the customer.
The price will vary depending on the choice of real wood veneers (cherry, walnut, rosewood, etc.) and the finish desired. High gloss finishes require many coats of finish, which is why they cost more than satin or semi-gloss finishes.

The reason that 95% of speaker manufacturers use MDF as the base material for speaker construction is because it is, as Mojo pointed out, one of the most acoustically inert materials available and is very consistent from one sheet of MDF to the next. Before the emergence of MDF as the ideal material for speaker enclosures, the next best alternative was plywood, because it is composed of laminated layers of different wood and glue, which makes it stiffer and less susceptible to resonances.

If we used actual planks of real wood for construction, you would have increased problems of acoustical resonances (vibrations) that would vary with each type of real wood, even within the same wood stock, so trying to brace it and cancel the resonances would become a manufacturing and testing nightmare for each speaker.

Loudspeaker enclosures are the opposite of musical instruments like acoustic guitars, violins, 'cellos, violas and double basses, where the vibrations of the strings cause the wood to resonate and amplify the tones created by the strings (the latter tones are transmitted to the body of a violin or guitar by the bridge that supports the strings.)

In a loudspeaker enclosure, you do not want the box to vibrate or resonate, creating spurious sub-harmonics or vibrations which would then taint or "color" the original sounds emitted by the loudspeaker. A loudspeaker box is not a musical instrument and should not contribute or generate acoustic output from its side, rear and front panels.

Regards,

thanks for y'all great infor. So, their diff is MDF sounds better, and "real wood" look better?

If so, i would to purchase the regular one, 'coz i think the appearance is just a little plus for me, sound/performance is the first thing first to me.

now, how long will it take to complete the regular M2(or M3)with Boston cherry vinyl/black gril, anyone please?

thanks guys,
Mark

Mark,

Boston Cherry is a standard color. If you order from regular stock, you normally would have it within a few days. If you want to save money and order from the Factory Outlet, the delivery times are stated on that page.

I don't work for Axiom, so you might want to call them or email them these types of questions.

thanks sirquack, I thought so too(regular just take few days from order to receive). but just checked the Factory Outlet. yes, it's cheaper there, but it take 2 week for M2(and M3) with regular boston cherry !

Mark

thanks Varkha, think i'll order that $330 regular M3 soon as possible. hopefully i can get it this week coz i'll off this weekend.

Mark

Alan, when I was looking at building my new sound system, I took a look at another speaker maker that used HDF instead of MDF. Is there an actual sonic benefit to using that over MDF, or is it just a bullet point, something to say they have over other companies?

i love classical music, but sometime i would also love to turn it up to shake my room with some ambient, morden jazz and/or techno. here is my last question, M2 or M3 may suit my style/room please?

Mark
ps: again, my room is 10X10X8 with 75wX7 receiver.

CV,

HDF (high-density fiberboard) has a denser core than MDF, but it isn't necessarily superior to MDF. The reason is that if you use too dense a material and/or over-brace a cabinet, you move the potential resonance to a higher frequency and the "Q" of the resonance gets larger--so it may become audible. (The Q of a resonance is its amplitude or relative loudness.) Note, too, that it's impossible to totally eliminate box resonances. Everything has a resonant frequency and it becomes a matter of controlling them.

The ideal is to create a box or enclosure whose resonant frequency is at a very low frequency and the "Q" is small. Research we've conducted at Axiom has shown that MDF and a moderate amount of bracing is ideal at keeping any box resonances below audibility. If you add too much bracing or use a more acoustically inert material, the resonance frequency moves up into the audible range and increases in amplitude.

So the other manufacturer who uses HDF may have bought into the folk wisdom that a denser material and more bracing makes for fewer resonances, or it may be a marketing ploy.

Regards,

Alan,

You're best post ever.

By the way, I heard quite a while ago, some speaker company was experimenting with "hardie board" (the siding with cement mixed in).

Now, THAT would be dense.

Larry

Yes, Alan, excellent post. Thank you.

So, I'm guessing the Q of concrete is pretty high? Wouldn't it take awfully high SPL's to excite that resonance, though?

Thanks, LT61, and "hardie board" is new to me.

Re Tom Tuttle, yes I would agree that it would take very high SPLs to excite a resonance in a concrete enclosure but this is conjecture on my part since I've never heard speaker enclosures made of concrete. However, if you follow the theory, once the resonance was excited, it would likely be at a very high frequency that might be audible.

Regards,

Hi Mark,

The M3 v2 is still your best choice because it has a larger woofer with more bass output, deeper bass, and better power handling at louder levels than the M2 v2 without a subwoofer.

I was just auditioning the M3v2 "blind" yesterday in the Axiom listening room at the plant driven by two aged Class A/B Denon monoblocs rated at 250 watts each into 8 ohms, and I was amazed at how clean and loud the M3 v2's would play on their own, without subwoofer assistance.

Regards,

Alan, thanks for the response. Very interesting.

Alan,

Oop's......I mean: Your best post ever.

It's nice to know the sonic advantages of MDF.........rather than someone saying "it's cheaper than real wood".
The "Hardie board" is a mixture of concrete powder and wood, a more durable material for exterior panels, than T-111 siding...which is moisture prone, etc.

I make a lot of stuff using MDF. It’s a down right pain in the but to work with because it’s soooooo heavy and the dust is absolutely horrible (and toxic to breath)…. But, it is amazingly flat and makes an outstanding table top for gluing anything on it with contact cement. You can rout the edges with a router (within the dust cloud), sand it, polish it, paint it…..just about anything. I’ve trimmed out homes with MDF trim too. I can certainly understand whey speaker cabinets are made out it. The car audio DIY crowd has been making subwoofer cabinets using MDF for years. Before that they used particle board. Plywood dose not worth very well.

I haven't worked with HDF, and can't even find it. If it's heavier than MDF, I'll pass. Wrasslin a 4 X 8 sheet of 3/4 MDF around tough enough.

If you've ever put in a laminate floor, many use HDF for the backing material.

I have put in many laminate floors and it is a killer on saw blades.