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Re: My new speakers--a review
tomtuttle #171899 07/09/07 07:23 PM
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What is MSRP on a set of these puppies?


Epic Grande Master 500 w/ on wall VP180
Re: My new speakers--a review
Nachosgrande #171900 07/09/07 07:58 PM
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Nice review (including mention of a $2,700 asking price) at http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/odyssey/lorelei.html


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Re: My new speakers--a review
tomtuttle #171901 07/10/07 01:22 AM
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My opinion is that the margin is no larger than Axiom's. Axiom probably has higher labor and material productivity than Odyssey due to larger volumes.

Re: My new speakers--a review
tomtuttle #171902 07/10/07 03:31 AM
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Tom, thanks for the kind words. Please, do not feel bad about asking such questions--ya ain't gonna make me feel bad. I understand that speakers are a subjective matter and don't hold to the idea that my personal tastes are the measuring stick for all the world. Actually, those are questions I have given thought to, as well.

It's funny, when I began writing the review I started off with a paragraph about diminishing returns and such, but took it out in the end.

1. Drivers. They are both Scanspeak drivers. Easily available wherever speaker parts are sold. The tweeter is the 2905-9700, and the woofer is the 18W/8545. I think it is less about individual drivers with great specs, but more about two drivers that work well together. You could buy uber-expensive parts that may not sound good when paired up with each other.

2. Crossovers. Well, I tipped one speaker over on its side with the intent of removing the bottom to expose the crossover, but I got cold feet. Can't bring myself to do it. I don't exactly know how many components are in the crossover, but I do know (actually I don't, I'll have to take Klaus's word for it) Sonicap capacitors were used. He actually suggested the upgrade. I do not know enough, nor have heard a particular crossover with and without premium parts, to tell you whether the Sonicaps have a positive effect. It was simply an option I chose to splurge on just because I could.

3. Research and development. This probably is where savings are biggest. As far as I know, the Lorelei is basically a clone of the German Symphonic Line speaker. So, I don't think there are the associated costs to recoup.

4. Manufacturing. I believe Klaus runs a very small operation. I know he has at least one assistant, Alex, who also posts in the Odyssey forum at Audioholics. I don't know the actual number of employees. When you call Odyssey Audio you talk to Klaus. I will add this, whether it has any bearing or not, but when talking to Klaus he mentioned he loved doing what he does. To me, that means a lot. Yes, it's a business, but it's also a passion. In my dealings with him, I believe him. I think he is genuinely concerned with making sure customers get a product they will love. Of course, I cannot speak for the man, but these are my impressions after numerous conversations with him.

5. Scale. Hang on, I have to look up "amortize." Okay, there is probably very little overhead being such a small company. The cabinets are from a local source. They used to be made in Canada and shipped to him. Klaus recently went with a local source to better control quality and damage. Klaus told me he no longer uses UPS to ship to customers because the damage rate was 1 out of 3 speakers. If that is accurate, that is an atrocious number. Getting UPS to pay for a claim is a long lesson in futility. I picked my speakers up at the Ontario Airport through Southwest. Oops, I think this is more of a continuation of the #4 Manufacturing section. I don't think I can give you a good answer for this one, even after looking up "amortize." I majored in film, not business.

Extra thoughts--I work in purchasing and have a good grasp of margins between dealer cost and retail cost. Sometimes the difference is moderate, and other times it is grotesque. In Klaus's case of running a small operation, probably not buying in mass wholesale quantities, his cost may be somewhat high. Unless of course he has a special deal, or contacts to work with. In any case, I believe drivers and crossover components are pretty concrete in pricing structure. Barring any exotic materials, such as beryllium or diamonds, I don't think there should be much difference between similar drivers from different manufacturers. I think a lot of the exorbitant pricing from speaker makers is mainly in cabinetry and R&D. This is where the slippery slope of diminishing returns comes in. How much better can a $100,000 dollar speaker sound than a $3,000 one? At what point to physical components plateau before audio magic is being sold? Similarly, if two different speaker manufacturers are given the same drivers, how different will their respective final products sound? Well, the last question isn't so profound, but still a valid point. Leaps and bounds in overall sound differences pare down to levels of tweaking such sound. How much to spend on that tweak is the million dollar question.

My wish is that everyone is able to find a sound they are happy with for a price they are comfortable with. I would not begrudge anyone for choosing Bose speakers over the Loreleis based on preferences of taste. How can I say this. . .

I will go out on a limb and say there is a horrible audio snobbery that exists on some audio forums. Yes, I know that is a generalized statement, but it is based on flame wars you see about "this speakers sounds better than that speaker" because: it is more expensive, it has better drivers, it comes from a reputable company, it's my speaker choice and not yours, etc. I hate these because they are wars of opinion based on taste. It's like me opening a thread saying my favorite color is green, and then having others blast me saying, "No, it should be blue because. . ."

Okay, so maybe that wasn't so much of a limb, but the point is. . .well, I don't know what my point is. Shoot, I've been typing too long.

Tom, next time you're down in Southern California, let me know. I just missed you last time you came down. And please, don't feel like you're raining on my parade. That's why we have this forum--to talk about stuff like this! You should feel bad about making me type all afternoon. Well, I typed while watching the home-run derby and making dinner.


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Re: My new speakers--a review
Mojo #171903 07/10/07 03:33 AM
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Quote:

My opinion is that the margin is no larger than Axiom's. Axiom probably has higher labor and material productivity than Odyssey due to larger volumes.




Dang it, Tex, you summed it all up in two sentences!


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Re: My new speakers--a review
St_PatGuy #171904 07/10/07 03:40 AM
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I just want to say I value thoughtful threads like this. A lot of good stuff to think about.

Re: My new speakers--a review
St_PatGuy #171905 07/10/07 03:57 AM
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Yes, I was forced to take technical writing in university . But I bet your explanation is more entertaining to read than mine.

Re: My new speakers--a review
Mojo #171906 07/10/07 04:04 AM
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Quote:

Yes, I was forced to take technical writing in university . But I bet your explanation is more entertaining to read than mine.




LOL! I learned how to filibuster my way through a ten page minimum with a two page intro.


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Re: My new speakers--a review
St_PatGuy #171907 07/10/07 03:19 PM
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You can type while making dinner?!?! Mad skills.

Thank you, Sean. I appreciate the kind words and your willingness to engage in the conversation. I'll bet those speakers sound super. Enjoy!


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Re: My new speakers--a review
tomtuttle #171908 07/11/07 05:40 AM
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No problem, Tom. Thanks for the stimulating questions.

And, yes, my computer is right next to the stove. . .

Okay, not really.


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