Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Moving soon...getting major upgrades...need help.

My current set up has just about worn thin on me. I love my speakers; vp150, m60's qs8's and m2i's...but the rest of my system; a 4 year old 52inch toshiba, a refurbished yamaha v2600 reciever, a denon 2910 dvd player, xbox360 w/HD DVD add on, a PS3...excluding the game systems of course...The other things feel so dusty to me. I'm looking to upgrade all those things plus add some more meat to my axiom system. Since I have no one else who'll indulge, enlighten, and take delight in this whole process, I felt compelled to post on my favorite AV forum.

These are the things I want to get for my new ht room...

1.Preferably a 144 inch projection screen. Atleast 120.

2.Either one of the two new high-performance entry level 1080p projectors; epson 1080 home cinema or the optoma hd80

3.One of the new next generation recievers(something mid priced with a lot of features, power not an issue, will use external amps) by your recommendations. Yamaha has soured me on recievers...

4.Concerning the adding of meat to my speakers, there are several configurations I've been considering;

I. An unlikely scenario, I have little hope it could work but I would love to do if it could -- FOUR vp150's, two on top and two on the bottom of the projection screen powered by two rpa-1 emotiva amps. My first choice was to use two m60's as the center channel to have four across the front, but I don't imagine I'll have that kind of room under the screen considering the size.

II. More likely scenario -- two vp150's, top and bottom, powered by an rpa-1, and axioms top of the line m80's as the mains(again, powered by an rpa-1), moving my m60's as the surrounds and QS8's as back surrounds(both powered by the reciever).

III. My next scenario I'm not very knowledgable about, but I've heard great results with -- two m22's as the center channel powered by the rpa-1. The rest would remain the same as I have it now. In what configuration would the m22's have to be in to get very good results? Is that set up preferable over vp150's?

5. Acoustical treatment on the cheap. I'm moving to a brick house(does that help?) that has a fairly large basement. I'd estimate about 3000 cubic feet. I'm gonna be putting a thick carpet there, as I hear that helps things. But I'm in the dark regarding room acoustics and treatments -- I know nothing of it. Where can I buy bass traps(what do bass traps even do?) and those foam pads that I see in fancy ht's? More importantly, where can I buy them on the cheap? Is there no cheating around room acoustics? If someone could link some info on the basics of room acoustics it would be extremely helpful. Of course your own insight and knowledge is even more welcome.

A note regarding recievers, the only one I've ever had is the yammie v2600...I hear great things from the likes of denon but there are a number of companies out there whose names have been thrown around in these boards but I can't seem to remember any of them. Audioholics really loves all things denon, but audioholics also sold me on the yammie, of which I'll never forgive them.

Drew, do you have a sub?

I have two ep500's

Well, dang--you got plenty in the sub department.

Here are some sites for room acoustics:

Ready Acoustics

GIK Acoustics

Real Traps

Eight Nerve

Lots of good info.

stay away from the foam crap, it does not perform as well as rigid fiberglass or rockwool, which is what the main companies use in their products.

If your even a little bit handy, you can make your own panels a heck of a lot cheaper than buying them. If your not a little bit handy, they GIK and many others are fairly affordable.

On my website I have pictures and articles on this subject. I just called a local insulation distibutor that sells to contractors for heating/cooling, etc. They sell Owens Corning 703 rigid fiber glass panels in 2ft x 4ft x 2" or 4" thick material. It is very easy to work with and cut if needed.

You can stradle the corners for bass traps (low freq's) with at least 4" thick material, and use 2" for the side wall/ceiling reflection points (higher freq's). Of course you will have to build a frame out of wood and cover with some material to make it look nice.

Thanks for the replys, but I'm a little weary that nobody has shot down my idea for four vp150's yet...Is it not as ridiculous as I thought it was? 144 inches is pretty big...

Are those new entry level 1080p projectors capable of putting out enough light to fill a 144 inch screen? Projectors are something else I know little about.

You should wait for the new crop of projectors at Cedia. Seeing how you are going all in, I'd stick with HDMI 1.3

The Epson is the HDMI 1.3 projector out yet. It's a bright projector, but noisy. I passed on it because mine is mounted directly above where I sit. Four VP's sounds like a dandy to me. You'd probably be better off with M80's up front though.... L/C/R

Also, wait for the AVR or Pre/Pro. Again, you'll want 1.3 Not many to choose from yet, but there will be later this fall.

That is a pretty big screen, mine is 10ft wide and I would not want it bigger. My basement is bigger than yours.

As for using 3 M80's across the front, I don't know that I can, I doubt there would be space underneath the screen for that. But M80's are mighty tempting. I've never actually listened to them before...Are they worth the few hundred extra bucks over the M60's? Is it possible to trade in my current axioms? Imagine 4 pairs of m80's...coupled with my two 500's...holy moly...

But anyway back to reality, would there be any special problems in having 4 vp150's? Could I save myself the cash and use one rpa-1 to power all four?

As for the screen size, the one im getting is 144 inches diagnol, which is around 120 inches wide, which would just about make us brothers. 10 feet is pretty damn big, I could just get smaller if it allowed me an M80 underneath but we'll see in the coming months.

And one more thing....Whats cedia?

What's the rationale for 4 VP150s? I understand 2--one above, one below, center the dialog on the screen. But 4? Extra volume? I suspect there's plenty from 2, but if you're really concerned, I'd make space for that M80--and just one of those.

Thats one helluva set up you have sirquack...My new goal is to have a set up as good as yours. How much did it cost to have a set up like that? Is that one vp150 sufficient? Where did you get that heavy ass carpeting done? Your system must sound incredible down there...If there is any wisdom you wish to impart I'd be very thankful.

I have a 2.35 aspect ratio screen that is 120" wide by 51" tall, which is equals 130" diag for cinemascope movies, I love no black bars. Otherwise, it converts to around 105" diag for 1.78 (HD) and 1.85 (dvds) ar's when needed.

drew,

for a 3000 cu.ft. room I would think that 2 VP150's would sound the same as 4 VP150s...thats just my opinion tho.

Further, I suspect that a single RPA-1 would not be able to handle 4 VP150s--that would be an impedance of 3 ohms for each amplifier. That's a pretty tough load, especially if you intend to push the volume the way that 4 center channels implies.

Consider two VP150s mounted behind the screen kinda like this. The dots are in there to make the line spacing work:

____________________________________________


............._________............. _________
............._________............. _________


____________________________________________

At what point do you lose the definition as a center channel? How close can you get the end tweeters to your mains?

I know what's being proposed, it just doesn't make sense.

The ends of my VP150 are 39" away from my M80s. My M80s are 96" apart by the way and toed in. My centre has excellent "centre definition".

So, for his 120" screen, he can place the first VP150 23" away from the end of his screen. The second VP150 would be placed 23" away from the first.

The M80s could be placed 39" away from the edge of the screen. So he needs a 25' wide wall to accomodate all of this. This width includes 3' of space beside each M80 to the sidewall.

Does this make more sense?

25' between the mains? No, can't say it does.

No. The distance between the mains is actually 16.5 feet. The width of the wall is 25 feet.

Ah, my reading comprehension skills are low today. I still don't think 4 centers laid out in that orientation makes much sense.

It's not 4 centers actually. It's only 2 as described in my text. You probably looked at the 4 lines that I drew and assumed 4 centers. We need a drawing tool on these boards.

I'm going to shut up now.

How much did all that acoustical treatment cost in your room sirquack?

As for the 4 vp150's...the idea gets more absurd as I think about it. 2 should be sufficient. But im interested in the M80's...are they a significant boost over my m60's? Does Axiom do trade ins?

Thbbbbt.

Axiom does indeed have a trade-up program right on the website. I don't know the link.

For acoustical treatment, I used my wife's red throw-blanket. Room distortion, imaging and soundstage are significantly improved with this "must have" material.

Mojo - that is a seriously nice looking setup!

According to some around here , the monitor is too small.

Here's some more:



Oh, and here's one for your significant other .

Drew the Owens Corning 703 panels I purchased are 2ft x 4ft and 2" thick. They came in a case of 12 sheets for around $120 bucks from the local insulation distributor. In the front corners I actually stacked triangles from floor to ceiling that I cut out of my first case. I got 8 triangles out of each panel, each one being 2" thick. That took one case. However, you could just stradle the corners with 4" thick of material by doubling up the 2" panels and building a frame or whatever to hold them in place.

My wall and ceiling panels are 2" thick and address the higher frequencies. I still have 6 panels left in my second case, I plan to build 1ft wide columns for the rear corners with those.

The rest of the material I purchased from the walmart fabric department pretty cheap...My website shows some of the building progress if you check out the picture pages.

Someone on another topic suggested I get a perforated screen and put an m80 as the center. I did a quick search on perforated screens and they are all very expensive. Does anyone know of a site that sells quality perforated screens without such a hefty price tag? I was looking to get a screen from carada, but they don't seem to sell perforated screens.

Is there a reason you think you need an acoustic transparent screen, or is it just because some guy told you to get one? The majority of front projection owners do not use them. Just curious.

No no no...im gonna get it so that I can use an m80 as my center, it can't fit below the screen.

Right, but the bad thing about that is that it takes away from your overall room size. The 80's are pretty deep speakers, plus you need to allow for 6-8" or more to let the ports filter in the low frequencies. Maybe you have a deep room, but mine is 31ft, and I would still not do it that way, that is just me.

A couple of minor cons about these screens is even though they say they are transparent, I'm not totally sold on that, and would not want the sonic clarity compromised. Also, there are some that have said the image is not as good compared to regular material that does not have holes.

good luck

And the prices are pretty steep...I'm probably just gonna stick with two vp150's. For those who have M80's, what kind of advantages does it have over the m60? Aside from playing louder, are it's sonic qualities significantly better? Is it worth the trade in?