Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Expecting more output from sub.

Real quick, here's what I have.
My receiver is a Denon AVR1802. My subwoofer is a Polk Audio PSW450.

Specs for Receiver: http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/pdfs/avr18023.pdf

Specs for Sub:
http://www.polkaudio.com/home/specs.php?recent=1&category=7&speaker=49


Now, let me start by stating that the subwoofer is connected by a high-performance rca cable, using lfe. First and foremost, do I still need to connect the speakers to the sub, or can I just use the lfe input alone? ;-)

The main problem is that I have the volume, on the subwoofer, all the way up, and the output levels on my receiver set to +11 (+12 is max). And I'm really not getting a whole lot of boom out of the thing. Opinions, tips, ideas. I'd appreciate any of 'em.

Thanx.

You should absolutely use the LFE alone. Do not hook up the speakers to the sub unless you're using the low pass speaker inputs into the sub.

Can't really speak to the second item.

Tim as long as the sub cable is a shielded coaxial cable with an RCA connector on each end no special attention to quality is necessary there. Then I assume you have the cable running from the sub out on the 1802 to the LFE input on the sub, which is the correct input to bypass the sub crossover and rely on the 1802 crossover, which should be set at 80hz, with all speakers set "small". The speakers would be connected with regular speaker wire to their respective terminals on the 1802 and wouldn't be connected to the sub at all. If you mean that you have both the 450's own level control and the sub level adjustment on the 1802 practically all the way up and yet aren't getting much bass(note that you shouldn't be looking for a "whole lot of boom"; the sub isn't supposed to be heard separately, instead the impression should be that the other speakers are putting out more bass), then either the sub amp is defective or the 1802 sub out isn't putting out enough voltage. As a test, use the alternate connection method with speaker wires from the 1802's regular main terminals to the high level speaker input terminals on the 450. Report if there's a decided difference when the sub out on the 1802 isn't used.

I appreciate your reply and will test your instructions.

If the high-pass sounds better than the lfe, what would that tell you? Is this good or bad? I thought low-frequency was better? Would this prove that the receiver isn't outputting high enough?

Thanx.

Yes Tim, using the coaxial cable from the sub out to the LFE input is generally better. I'm just suggesting as a temporary test measure that you connect speaker wire to the speaker level sub inputs instead. If you then get plenty of volume from the sub that indicates that the sub amp is okay, but that the sub out on the 1802 isn't working right or possibly that the LFE input on the 450 has a problem.

I should add that when you use this alternate connection, you have to set the mains "large" and the sub no in order for the bass to be output from the main terminals instead of the sub out on the 1802. Your owners manuals explain this connection and receiver settings.

Ken,

A couple of things to double-check:

(1) The crossover frequency knob on the sub should be all the way up. If the sub has a switch to defeat/engage the crossover circuit, then it should be defeated.

(2) If the Denon receiver has a "bass peak limiter" type of feature, it should be turned off or properly set (consult the manual).

The issue is a direct result of the recent power outtages. My subwoofer is the only device that wouldn't fit into the surge protector. It sufferend a spike and I'm sol. My insurance deductible isn't worth paying. :-(

Ouch. Sorry to hear that, man. Guess surge protectors are important, huh, guys?

Have you checked to see if the sub's fuse is blown? Most sub fuses I've seen are externally accessible and found near the power plug on the back. Just twist the small gray circle with a coin or screwdriver to remove it. You can get a replacement fuse cheaply from Radio Shack.

If you're really SOL, here's your excuse to get a better sub.

Tim,

Are you sure? I suspect that it is pretty difficult for a power surge to do such a "subtle" damage. I mean, your sub isn't totally broken, but just seemingly lost some amp gains if any, right?

If the sub is at least sounding at low levels, I would still check on every other possibility...

[btw, my last post above was directed to you, not Ken -- my apologies!]

I'm pretty sure the power surge did it. It's acting strange when I turn it on. If I power it on, the light stays red, if I set it to auto, the light turns on. The little sound I'm getting out of the subwoofer is simply because the amp is likely fried. I *WILL* check into the fuse and your other suggestions, since I've nothing to lose at this point. You say "..this is your excuse to get a better sub." What would you recommend?

Hi

You may want to go through the set up routine for your receiver and assure yourself that you have selected "SUB - ON, or SUB - YES"

Good luck!

On second thought, if the fuse is blown then the sub shouldn't even turn on.

I've recently been called a "broken record" for saying this so often, but you asked, so I'll answer. "What sub should you look at for a replacement?"

Hsu. If you're in a smaller room, the VTF-2 would be well suited. If you really want some power the VTF-3 is your man.

Good luck. Hopefully your Polk isn't dead, but if it is, like they said - perfect excuse to upgrade.

Can't go wrong with the HSU. I bought a VTF-3 a few weeks ago from an Audiogon auction for $622.00 in mint conditon. It replaces an old JBL. Its just amazing! I didn't know what I was missing until I hooked this thing up and watched Jumanji. The bass is huge yet clean,deep and tight. I'm just all beside myself with joy!

Hey, Mike, welcome to the Hsu family! And you are still in love with your Maggies, right?

Thanks Masa! Yes, I still love the Maggies and the Axioms and the KEFS. I'm using the HSU with the KEFs for HT. I don't think I'll be upgrading speakers for a VERY long time...well, at least for a long time.

Yeah, in the last months or two, I've been slowly looking into upgrading my beloved Hales System Two's, and listening to almost every "high-end" brand that I can put my hands (ears) on. So far, I found that I like the Maggie 3.6/Rs (and 20.1/Rs) best. Their realistic soundstage and naturally detailed presentation is very special to me. The problem is, I am not sure at all if I can place them optimally in our living room.

Mike, you are certainly guilty of introducing me to the Maggies and removing my prejudice against the planner dipoles!

Speaking of Maggies, I was talking to a buddy of mine here at work, who's big into high end audio equipment, and he had a pair of $15,000 Maggies...Im not sure which model they were but he said thats how much he spent on them. His wife "accidentally" put a foot through one... He's considering buying another set pretty soon. Ive never heard of them before he mentioned them to me, and showed me some pics of them. They are really cool looking! Id never be able to buy a set for myself though

Masa, I'll make an audiofile out of you yet! So, the Maggie sound grew on ya huh?

I know what you mean about auditioning "every "high-end" brand that I can put my hands (ears) on". I also searched for months but once I heard the Maggies I knew I had to have them and could not go back to box speaker for "critical listening". You're right about them being hard to place but I didn't care, I had to have them because they were the only ones that really pushed "aural" my buttons.

I would love to upgrade to the true ribbon planar but size and cost prohibit it.

Hey, if you don't get the Maggies you may find yourself always wondering if you made the right choice.

Cannibal,

Well, the flag-ship Maggie models are certainly recognized as "high-end" speakers among those "audiophile" people. But their prices are in fact very modest as compared to other (outrageously pricey) brands to which they are usually compared to. The largest and most expensive Maggies, the MG20.1, are ~$12K/pair; there are no Maggies that cost as much as $15K. The model Mike (mwc) owns, the MG12, can be had for a little over $1K/pair.

"Cannibal,

Well, the flag-ship Maggie models are certainly recognized as "high-end" speakers among those "audiophile" people. But their prices are in fact very modest as compared to other (outrageously pricey) brands to which they are usually compared to. The largest and most expensive Maggies, the MG20.1, are ~$12K/pair; there are no Maggies that cost as much as $15K. The model Mike (mwc) owns, the MG12, can be had for a little over $1K/pair. "

Wow, thats really insane. I couldnt imagine being able to spend that much money on speakers. That guy did buy those speakers several years ago, maybe they just cost that much then. Jeez, Id be pretty depressed if my wife stuck a foot through them....

In reply to:

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Hey, if you don't get the Maggies you may find yourself always wondering if you made the right choice.

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EXACTLY! That's what my instinct tells me right now (although I still have to listen to a couple of additional brands).

If I eventually decide after an in-home auditioning that I cannot place the Maggies properly in our room, then I may well postpone the upgrade altogether for another decade. I am by no means unhappy with my Hales -- so, unless I am convinced that the new speakers will provide me with a "quantum leap" in sound quality (which I believe the Maggies will), it's not worth doing.

They are definitely a quantum leap over anything I've ever heard-including Revels. Although i'm just going to go on pretending that the M22s are pretty darn close.

Maggies give you a totally new way of listening to music. You basically have to take everything you've learned about music by listening to it through box speakers and toss it out the window.

Having a pair of Maggies would be like being born again.

How 'bout them MMGs? Wanna give them an in-home trial?

kitty cats. Like little (rather large now) Kali, Goddess of Destruction in my picture.