 Re: M80s to bright for prolonged music listening?
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Joined: May 2002
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axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: May 2002
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And the point being?
Would a person sit higher or lower then with the M80s to remove this artifact?
What different responses would occur at those positions?
The measurements are taken at a standard position and THAT position is where the comparison would be drawn either with ears or with a mic measuring sound.
I'm sure we could see other changes in the spectrum if a person at ear level (or the mic position) were sitting near the floor or raised 1m above either speaker.
Off axis measurements left and right at the same height are proof of the concept.
The fact is that measuring the response at the same mic height as one would measure for the M60 or perhaps any other tower shows a wobble below the 200Hz mark for the M80 perceivable by a mic and expected to be perceived by human ears.
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
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Re: M80s to bright for prolonged music listening?
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,833
axiomite
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axiomite
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The point being I was under the impression that the mike was set at two meters away when measuring and when listening at a distance these "artifacts" would not be apparant. The way Ian wrote it I read it meaning it was all due to mike positioning.
Rick
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud
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Re: M80s to bright for prolonged music listening?
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,654
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Wheelz, I determined to my own satisfaction years ago that the "bright", "metallic", or whatever other similar characterization was applied lacked a solid factual basis. Although I listen to almost no pop CDs, I borrowed several from the library that a poster had described as "well-recorded" but sounding unacceptably harsh on M60s. On my M22s I heard some of what he'd described, but it appeared to me to be the result of the recording being somewhat over-prominent in the upper midrange/lower treble, possibly in order to sound more impressive on mediocre equipment. Tending to confirm this was the fact that when I applied a 4-5 DB cut centered at 4KHz on one of my receivers which had tone controls with variable turnover frequencies, the reproduction was significantly smoother. No such problem existed with any of my classical CDs which were in fact "well-recorded".
Although no speakers have the essentially perfect flatness in frequency response which is almost universal in players and receivers these days, the Axioms are certainly among the best in this regard and very accurately deliver what's given to them, good or bad.
-----------------------------------
Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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Re: M80s to bright for prolonged music listening?
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 138
veteran
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veteran
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Quote:
Tending to confirm this was the fact that when I applied a 4-5 DB cut centered at 4KHz on one of my receivers which had tone controls with variable turnover frequencies, the reproduction was significantly smoother.
So, let me ask a dumb question...
Aren't these "bright" issues easily settled with a little bit of EQ? If it's all just a bump of a couple of decibels here and there?
If not, could someone explain...and if so, why is there so much stress about this issue? Surely anyone who is into audio enough to identify "brightness" is the type of person who is likely to be fussing with equalization anyway?
Last edited by zhimbo; 09/26/07 03:05 AM.
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Re: M80s to bright for prolonged music listening?
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 157
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veteran
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When I first received my m60's I too was afraid that they sounded "bright" or "harsh" occasionally. I think the truth was that my expectations were so high that for the first time in my life I was listening to the music with a critical ear.
After listening for awhile, I identified a few passages on a few CD's that especially exhibited the bright characteristic, and then listened to those same passages with some other equipment like my car, a pair of headphones hooked directly to the CD player, and through my computer speakers. I found that those CD's sounded crappy no matter where I played them. I couldn't believe that I hadn't noticed it before, but once I realized that it was the source material and not the speakers, I started enjoying the m60's even more.
I still love how great they sound, regardless of how hard I push them.
M60's
VP150
QS8's
HSU STF-2
Onkyo TX-SR805
Audiobytes for the PC
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Re: M80s to bright for prolonged music listening?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Chess,
I believe when people say "ruler flat", they mean to say "ruler flat in comparison to the vast majority of other speakers". On that point I would definitely agree.
Those that perceive brightness in the M80s may have mid-range hearing loss. It would be interesting to correlate the audiogram results with listeners' impressions of brightness.
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Re: M80s to bright for prolonged music listening?
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745 Likes: 17
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745 Likes: 17 |
Quote:
If not, could someone explain...and if so, why is there so much stress about this issue?
Because people are too proud to think their audio equipment has flaws (i.e., not perfect). It must be the recording is becoming used way too often. Speakers and especially room interactions are often a distant third.
Quote:
I believe when people say "ruler flat", they mean to say "ruler flat in comparison to the vast majority of other speakers". On that point I would definitely agree.
Mojo, that is a pretty broad and a rather exaggerated conclusion to make considering the number of speaker brands out there and the lack of graphs or other data as proof either way.
If you look at the online graphs of speakers other than Axiom, there are other very good speakers; Thiel and Energy being two off the top of my head.
I guarantee they sound different from Axioms and i've never heard/read anyone state they found Thiels to be a bright speaker. Yes i'm sure someone can find a post out there but Axioms have gained a description of being bright, Thiels have not.
Coincidence? Or not?
Again, no proof either way.
Once a person starts to listen to alot of other brands, and hopefuly could try some in an a/b home test, the description of bright that i use for my Axioms still stands.
But they sound great in our media room, so i'm happy, especially for the price paid.
Last edited by chesseroo; 09/26/07 04:39 AM.
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Re: M80s to bright for prolonged music listening?
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,490 Likes: 116
shareholder in the making
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shareholder in the making
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Quote:
Mojo, that is a pretty broad and a rather exaggerated conclusion to make considering the number of speaker brands out there and the lack of graphs or other data as proof either way./Quote:
Alright. You've thrown down the gauntlet now. I guess I'll have to do an exhaustive analysis of every speaker out there so that I can prove my claim  .
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...i've never heard/read anyone state they found Thiels to be a bright speaker. Yes i'm sure someone can find a post out there...
Three quarters down this page.
7th line in the 5th review right here.
Halfway down this page under "sound".
Page 3, 2nd column, 3rd line right here.
I could go on and on but there are more posts I need to read before I go to bed. Sorry Chess. I couldn't resist .
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Re: M80s to bright for prolonged music listening?
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,331
axiomite
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axiomite
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,331 |
Quote:
Quote:
If not, could someone explain...and if so, why is there so much stress about this issue?
Because people are too proud to think their audio equipment has flaws (i.e., not perfect).
Ah I see, if you perceive them to be bright, then they must, in fact, be bright. But, if someone perceives them to not be bright, it can only be because they feel they have to defend their purchase. It couldn't possibly be that they actually don't perceive them to be bright. No we can't accept that, because that would mean your contention that Axioms are bright would be false. For if they are objectively bright, then everybody would find them bright. So in order to ensure that your statement is correct, we must dismiss anyone finding them to not be bright as simply not willing to face the "truth." Sheesh! 
Jack
"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
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Re: M80s to bright for prolonged music listening?
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745 Likes: 17
axiomite
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axiomite
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Quote:
Alright. You've thrown down the gauntlet now. I guess I'll have to do an exhaustive analysis of every speaker out there so that I can prove my claim
Well at least more than the miniscule number of graphs on the Soundstage site. Even the M80s look brutal in their graphs from their files. I can only imagine how many of the speakers up there also had tweaks since.
In regards to your Googling effort, the first two of your finds the reviewers are saying the Thiels are not bright and the third review was fooling around with placement, mentioning (and rightly so) changes from room/boundary reflections.
Geez Mojo, i expected a better effort here. Come on now.
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
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