Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners just ordered m60's

I have had Bose Accoustimass Fives for 10 years and before that Bose 501's I am just curious how much of a different sound I am going to hear when my new speakers arrive next week?
Thanks.

In my opinion you will be very pleased. I had m60's before my current m80's and they will always hold a place in my heart....

Welcome Chris,

I imagine you have the 501 series IV which unfortunately are much worse than the series III. The 60s are easier to place and have nicer aesthetics and are slightly brighter than the 501s (which is good) but still quite warm compared with the 80s. The 60s have much better imaging, clearer highs and wider soundstage. The midrange of the 501s is more mellow and recessed in a bad way. You'll find the midrange of the 60s more airy and transparent. Depending on how you placed the 501s, the bass out of the 60s may not be as heavy but that's only because the 501s have exaggerated bass.

I won't even bother commenting on the acoustimass system because frankly it disgusts me.

Make sure you experiment with toe-in when you get your 60s and try to form an equilateral triangle between you and the speakers. I am sure you will enjoy the 60s more than the 501s.

I can't add any more technically than Mojo, but I will say you will revisit your cd collection and find out what you have been missing.

Thanks for the responses. I had to laugh when I saw Mojo's comment or no comment on the accoutimass speakers.It seems the more research I have done on them, the more negative things I hear about them.It seems like the older Bose speakers like the old 501's were better quality speakers than what they put out now.I am really excited about hear the difference in the sound of the m60's compared to Bose.From what I researched it seems like I will hear music like I have never heard before.It is sure
interesting to buy speakers when I have never heard them before, but based on my research the Axiom's was the way to go.

I felt the same way as you about buying blind 8 months ago. But I figured I had little to lose given the 30 day trial. Glad I did what I did. Let us know what your impressions are.

Yes I sure will.I have a stack of Cd's ready to go.When the speakers arrive tomorrow.

Well yesterday I received my m60's,and all I can say is I have been missing out on a lot music over the 15 years when I was using the Bose speakers.The first cd that I put in was the first part of Brian Wilson's Smile cd where thay sing in accapella.I could hear them taking their breaths between sing lines in the song.Next I played the Beatles All the lonely people.I the notes from the cello were so clear and deep it gave me goosebumbs.Next i played some Sting and the songs that i heard sounded so diffent than they did before.Its like I can hear each instrument more clearly and separately,intead of a hearing a jumbled mess.I have heard bass notes that I have never heard before.Its just sounds like a alot more fuller sound.My wife is probally going to kick me out of the house because all I do is sit there on the couch and analyze my cd's.The speakers are well worth it and Mojo discribed them very accurately.Just one question.How many inches should the back of the speaker be from the wall?Thanks!

Excellent! Now you know where all the enthousiasm you can find in this forum is coming from!

Welcome aboard!

The M60s are quite forgiving for placement, no set distance, move them around and see if you hear any difference, mine are about 3" away, not much change farther out or closer in for my room.

Now aren't you disgusted with Bose too?

Glad that you are satisfied. Don't analyze too much...just enjoy. You can get into the bad habit of forensic analysis with these speakers rather than just sitting back and taking it in.

Make sure the speakers are not positioned the same distance from the back wall as they are from the sides.

Can you post some pictures of your room and how you have the speakers set up?

Congrats! It is fun going through all your CD's and experiencing them all over again in a good way.

If you only got m80's, oh crap, I didn't say that.

Nah, he's just setting up for the ultimate.... M82!

Have you decided what you're doing, Jason?

For the moment I am staying with the M82, after playing more of my cd collection I am realizing that the M60 is really showing its true self. I have some I never used to play, but now I can tolerate them. If my wife was to make me choose(have I ever mentioned how much I love her!) I would be going with the M80s, hands down, no contest.

That M80 clarity and fullness has me (and I know my wife would prefer them as well compared to the M60s alone), but my wife has said she doesn't mind the M82 look and she definately prefers the extra mid/highs the M22 lends to the M60 richness; unless she says otherwise, I am one of the few with the M82(M60/M22 in parallel). Pics of my present M82, VP150 setup to come soon(maybe tomorrow), along with some pics of the Axiom wire and banana plugs.

Damn, the more I think about those M80s and the chance to have M22 upstairs I start to waver.......must..... focus......time is running out, only 2 weeks to go in my 30 day window.....

You could get another pair of M22s upstairs.

Jason, it might be interesting to check how much of the M82 quality is due to the M60 woofers alone. This could be done, of course, by removing the connecting straps and connecting the speaker wire to the bottom woofer terminals.

The thought of M3s for upstairs went through my head several times as well, as I am not sure the sub will make its way up there now or in the future.

John's suggestion would be a good thing to try but I don't think the woofers will give that mid warmth. BTW, I now have my M80s running bi-wired on A+B. I wanted to hear what the woofers and mids/tweeters sounded like separately. The woofers on their own almost sound like Bose 501s (a slight exaggeration but not too far off) and the mids/tweeters like M22s. If I disconnect one of the mids and tweeters, I wonder if they'd sound like M60s?

I bet the woofers alone sounded like my 201s and that wouldn't be an exaggeration. Not too surprised the tweeters and mids sound similar to the M22, as that is all the M22 consists of. So far as the M60 attempt, again it should almost exactly mimic it, only 1 tweeter and mid and both woofers in nearly the same enclosure, try it and let us know.

John I will let you know, good idea, as the M22 and EP600 didn't have that warmth of the M60, it still felt to be missing something, very good but not full. This would suggest it's the 6 1/2" driver that is warming things up.

I am still trying to get some time to compare the M22 to VP series.

Holy highjack! We should be posting under your(our) review!

The 500 & 600 take deep dives at 100Hz. The 400 though keeps steady up to 150Hz and then rolls off. Maybe the 400 is a better match with the 22s at the present moment. Jason, we should have pulled out my Sony sub which has a 3dB point at 170Hz and then rolls off at 6dB/octave after that. This is something we can try next time.

Oh yeah...let me know too please.

As per Axiom product description, the EP-400 was specifically designed to work in "small rooms" with bookshelf speakers.

Thanks guys for all of the insightful comments,and yes I am disgusted with Bose,and yes I did sit on my couch wondering
what the M80's sound like,because the M60's sound so nice.

Well just imagine the vocals and mids sounding more forward and not sitting just under/behind the music. The M80s and M22s present the vocals and mids first then the music etc. this gives them a carity that is unsurpassed, at least in the Axiom line up.

That sounds like a much better listening experience.Maybe in a couple of years I can talk my wife into a combo like that.For now I am going to enjoy my new M60's and hear all of my Cd's
in a whole new way.Thanks Chris

Jason, you should consider a profession in audio reviewing. You're the most eloquent mechanic I've ever met :-).

Mojo thanks! I would love a job as an audio reviewer, right up there with a mythbuster! Hey, I wonder if they would try out audio cables and set the record straight.

Chris, yes the M60s are really good, not sure if I would say the combo is a much better experience, just different. You have to enjoy that forward sound in the first place, which I do and have become accustomed to thanks to my M22s. I honestly think if I had ordered the M60s, my wife would have told me to send them back, as the vocals are not as dramatically emphasized as on the M22/M80.

Jason,Yes you are correct the vocals on my M60s seem to be in the middle of the intruments not to far forward.But what amazes
me about these speakers is that I hear sutle sounds in the songs that I have never heard before.Its like I have to listen to my whole music collection over again to here what the songs really sound like,Its like the music has way more feeling now, more intense.Chris

That detail that you're picking out is even more magnified with the 80s.

You're really not nice, Mojo...

I didn't mean to belittle the 60s. I was simply pointing out a fact. Some actually may not like that level of detail.

Have you directly compared the M60s and M80s? Just curious.

Yes indeed. Look up the post titled "M60/M80/M22...and a few abominations in between" or something like that. Jakewash and I got together to compare his 60s & 22s against my 80s.

Chris,

I am really happy for you and your new speakers, enjoy your time with the Axiom sound!

Cool. I've seen references to the thread, but as I've been in Mexico for the last 10 days or so, I totally missed it.

How's Mexico?

It wasn't quite as relaxing as last time I went, but last time I didn't have a 6 month old.

Crazy weather down there right now (in Baja, at least). We had humidity, a huge thunderstorm, rain, dry heat pushing 100, and a big windstorm. Made camping on the beach a bit of an adventure. The fishing was ok; we actually got one Dorado (Mahi mahi), and would have had two if it wasn't for that meddling seal...

Got to see dolphins right next to and under the boat, which was really something in a 14' aluminum car-topper!

Really gorgeous down there. I'll post some pictures at some point.

Glad to hear somebody is catching *something* Ken, last three or so weeks down here has been totally blown out due to the high winds and rough sea conditions. The past couple of days have settled very nice and I'm hearing this weekend is forecast to be really nice, *and* the dolphin (that's what we call dorado down our way) fishing is coming back around after a slow summer .... we're there!

Glad you and the family had a good time and looking forward to the pics.

We mostly caught bottom fish--trigger and the like--but the fishing was fairly poor at the beginning of the week. A few other people (with bigger boats) were catching more dorado. There really weren't all that many people on the beach.

Someday I hope to hear M80s to compare but for now, I can safely say I am not the slightest bit disappointed with my M60s. When you are previously used to substandard gear, the difference is so pleasing, that it is hard to want more.

Also, I seem to have soooo many CDs that I now can tell were poorly recorded, I can't imagine going to speakers that bring out those poorer qualities even more.

Now if I win the lottery, maybe 60's side by side to the 80s and a computerized switch that automatically detects crappy recordings and chooses which speakers to use......

There is no reason to be disapointed by M60, I think. Although I do have the M80 and very happey with them, so far all speakers I heard from Axiom are very good and quite pleasing. The rest is just a matter of room size and budget.

The number of great posts on M50/M60 and all the bookshelves has made me confident in recommending any of those lines to my friends according to their needs and budgets.

There is a very simple mechanical tool you can use to sort out bad recordings from good ones. One is made of plastic (sometimes with a metal frame), the other (if you are ecologically inclined) is entirely biological. You either need: 1) A garbage bin or 2) A nephew or niece to hand over part of your collection

I just ordered a pair of M60's and expecting them soon. I presently have Bose also 901 series VI. I had them for a few year now and I'm going use my A/B connections so I can really see if the M60's are better. All I need to get now are 2 female connectors so I can unplug the boss EQ and bypass it when I'm running the M60's on the B side. I hope I do hear a difference between the two. Anyone out there ever had the Boss 901's??? I was thinking of the M80's but, was advised by Axiom that my Yamaha RX-v2095 would have trouble driving them.

I used to have the Bose 901s a few years back, about 5 or 6, and enjoyed them very much. I now have the Axiom M80s and imo they are a much more refined speaker. I never did an a/b test with the two so your results will be interesting.

How are you using your 901s? Are the plurality of drivers facing you or the rear wall? Also, did you remove the canvas (that's the best way I can describe the heavy material) that's covering all of those drivers?

I'm not going to tell you how I think they'll compare because I don't want to bias your opinion.

Hybrid,
I had Bose 501's and and accoutimas five's before i purchased my M60's a few weeks ago and believe me they do have a much fuller and richer sound to them.Granted you do have the 901's
but man the with the axioms you can really pick out each individual sound coming from the recording.I wished I had bought axiom's years ago.

...and the 60s are muted compared to the 80s. Time to upgrade .

Be nice, he just got them. Give him a little more time to wonder about what he might be missing, then throw him the "M80s are more detailed/clearer/airy line".

I had Bose 701's as Mains up until about two months ago when I decided to upgrade to the m60's. The saying about Bose is so true "No highs, no lows, must be Bose". I hear so much of a difference that it wasn't even funny. The 701's had tinny highs, way laid back mids and the lows were deep at low levels and sounded over-exaggerated at higher levels. I found that the speakers weren't..........designed properly. None of the components in the speakers matched volume wise I found. I had to play with my AVR's Bass and Treble settings to get what sounded good.

The m60's are so much better. All of the components compliment each other nicely. I found the m60 to be a bit laid back, but was totally worth the upgrade.

The m80's get here tomorrow right in time for the weekend, so I'll try for a short review of the m60 vs m80.

Looking forward to your review.

I wanted to get the M80's but, Axiom claimed that I would have problems running my receiver at 4 ohms. Even though the documentation for the receiver says it would. And I really don't want to upgrade my receiver. Took a little convincing my better half just on the speakers and we all know how that is! I'll keep you posted on my findings.

I'm using the 901's for both music and HT. The 8 drivers are facing the wall and the covers are still attached never did remove them. Like they claim, it took some tweaking there position to get a good sound. I have mine 18" from the rear wall and 2.5 feet from the side wall.

Don't worry. You won't be disappointed. I can't imagine my M60s sounding any better than they do. If I ever hear M80s, maybe I'll start to get upgraditis but right now I enjoy the M60s without any regrets.

Wid
May I ask why you are not using the 901's anymore?

That's an interesting question. Are you planning on using the M60s with 901s in the same room?

Mojo
Believe me, I have already wondered, what if I had bought the M80's? But right now I am really enjoying the M60's and I have already talked to my wife about maybe in a few years use the trade up program to get the M80's or what ever new creation Axiom will have by then.

I found the M60s to be nearly identical in sound and detail when the volume was quite loud(80-90db +). The 60's start to breath and open up alot at the higher volumes. The M80s sound this way at all volume levels. This might give you an indication of what to expect for that future upgrade.

I gave them to a friend of mine along with an amp and preamp.

Can I be your friend?

I gave my 601s to a friend too. Mark, do you want to be my friend too ?

You already are Mark

Rick, send that Rotel 1080 amp Mark's way ... show him what kind of a friend you *really* are.

Now that aint funny

No, it's not.....it should come my way and I would even pay the shipping!

No I wasn't planning on using them together. I couldn't do that anyway using only one AMP. The 901 requires the Boss EQ to work properly and, if you use the Boss EQ with any other speaker, it would destroy them. The reason I'm trying the M60's is because of all the good reviews I read about them. And Technology has changed in the past years. I'll let everyone know my resulys after Ido the A/B test between them. I'm not going to use any test equipment only my ears. I still wish I could of tried the M80 in a side by test with the 901's after all the 901's are the top of the line from boss and I should be using the top of the line from Axiom.

Right after the 901s I had some Def Techs. They where better than the 901s and the M80s are far better than the Def Techs imo. You should see a pretty big improvement with the M60s. I still liked the 901s in all the years I had them.

Jakewash you are correct. The family was gone so I cranked up the M60's for the first time, and it really brought the vocals
way more forward.My ears are still ringing!Man these speakers are nice.

Hy,

To make the comparison as fair as possible, I suggest you calibrate each speaker to the same SPL level using an SPL meter. I also suggest that you listen to a number of different types of music at varying levels of gain on your receiver. Finally, try to listen to the details, nuances and spatial cues from each speaker type. You and the Axioms should form an equilateral triangle.

Yep. And you can get the same clarity from the 80s without cranking them although cranking does make them more vibrant.

It's the ability to be clear/detailed and open at low volumes that I love about the M80s.

Sorry Mojo I have not done the calibration test i am not familiar
with it.This spl tool is not something I have used before.The only tool i use is my ears.I do have a equilateral triangle with my speakers.I am sure the M80's sound better at every level but for right now I am enjoying my M60s instead of Bose.

Sorry, Mojo. I like music with more than half a watt!

Chris, you can't rely on your ears to ensure that your speakers are outputing the same SPL. If you don't ensure that they are at the same SPL, the comparison will not be as valid. Tests have proven that the loudest speaker usually wins even if that speaker is of poorer audio quality. Our ears tend to favour the louder speaker.

The reason I'm saying this is because I know that the 901s are 2dB more sensitive than the 60s (or at least the Series IVs were). So the 901s may sound better to you because they will be louder.

You owe it to yourself to get an SPL meter if nothing else than to properly calibrate all your speakers. I suggest staying away from the Radio Shack meter because it's analog and you have to use multipliers. Get a digital one like Jakewash's or one like mine. By all means though, don't just trust the SPL meter. Use your ears for final tweaking.

. I guess I'll continue to be the sole member of the half watt club.

Yeah Chris, our ears are great for listening, but they leave a lot to be desired for measuring.

Everyone here knows you're the only member of the half wit watt club.



(Sorry. Couldn't resist. I was trying to come up with a zinger based on "you're a half watt shy of a ______." You know, like "you're one card shy of a full deck." But I couldn't think of an appropriate ending. A humiliating failure. )

How about ... 'Half a Mojo shy of a full watt'?

I know, it's early yet.

I can see now that my Saturday is going to turn out dismally .

That's funny stuff, you guys.