Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater I need help understanding DVD/CD player options

Before my existing CD/DVD player conks out I thought I should start doing some research to be ready. Consider me a total newbie when it comes to video so I can use some advice.

I currently have a 720p/1080i Sammy. My receiver and current DVD player don't have HDMI so I use optical from the player to the receiver and component video from the receiver to the Sammy. I love the receiver's on-screen display and don't really want to give that up.

My format must-haves are CD (all formats)/MP3/DVD/HDDVD. My format nice-to-haves are JPEG/DVD-A/SACD/WMP.

Can I use component video with an HD player?

With HDDVD, do I automatically get something called Dolby true HD? Does my receiver also need to be Dolby true HD capable too?

Do analog outputs come with every one of these players? My rear and side speakers are further away from me than my fronts. Do the time delay settings permit this (unlike the Oppo which doesn't).

Do the bass management settings allow me to select 80Hz (I looked into a Denon and it allows 100Hz only).

What does HDMI give me and what doesn't it give me? Can I connect via HDMI for video and fiber for audio?

Should I get an xbox or a PS instead of a regualr DVD/CD player?

Should I get a separate DVD player and a separate CD player and why?

Can someone point me to an article that can educate me more about formats, options, gotchas, etc. I am not sure that I even know what I don't know. Thanks everyone.

Where to start

HDMI is needed for 1080P as component doesn't support the bandwidth last time I actully looked into it. True Dolby/DTS also flows out on the HDMI allowing for the 1 cable to do it all. Now there is a point of the handshake needed so if one component is older than the others ie. HDMI1.1 vs 1.3a there will be some issues there, no video but the audio still feeds through, or so I have heard. With your size screen 720P is all you really need so HDMI is not required, until you spring for the 68" 1080P

Analog outputs (for SACD and DVD-A? 5- 7 channel?) do not come standard.

Right now the PS3 is still the best deal for Blue Ray. The other threads have the new Toshibas as the best bang for the buck in HD.

I am sure you have been over to AVS forums to see what they say. I have also found some interesting things at Afterdawn

This link might help sorting out formats.

http://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers

I wasn't sure how the new HD audio formats would work when I got my A2 HD-DVD player as I have a reciever that does not have the new formats. However, I read that as long as you use HDMI, the player will decode and send a compatible multi-channel stream to your receiver.

However, if you don't use HDMI, you will be limited to choosing old formats like Dolby 5.1 or DTS (hopefully all HD-DVD disks still have at least a Dolby 5.1 format included.)
OR
your player would have to have separate analogue outs for every channel to your receiver. The player could then, again, decode the new formats and send to your receiver via the analogues.

I wasn't sure exactly how the player decoding works via HDMI but after getting it set up, testing seems to indicate that it works.

For instance, when I put in a HD-DVD and select a HD audio format, my Denon 3608 switched to an new setting I never saw before. The display read simply [Multi-channel Audio] instead of listing Dolby, DTS or any other actual format name that I'm used to seeing. All 5.1 of my speaker input and output lights were on to indicate a multichannel input source and output.

When I put in HD ver. of Transformers which only comes with a Dolby 5.1 soundtrack (albeit a very, very impressive one) my display actually detected Dolby 5.1 again and displayed so.

In short, for the new audio formats, you will need
1. A HD Decoding player and HDMI but not necessarily a HD Audio capable Receiver.
or
2. A HD Decoding player with Analogue-Outs and a receiver with free Analogue-Ins.

Yup. And if you have the receiver form #2 (no HDMI) and the player from #1 (no analog out), then you are screwed. That is the boat I am in. It costs a chunk of change to get a receiver equal to what I have now but with HDMI, and it costs another $500 to get the higher end HD-DVD player with analog outs...

Now, where's that money tree again???

Tell me if you find it.

It's not down here amongst the sub-tropics of south Florida, must not be conducive weather for that strain of tree.

Yikes, Nick. I may have to upgrade my TV (too small for some of you, 720p/1080i only, HDMI<1.3) and my receiver (no HDMI, only 90W, only a single cross-over, no Dolby True HD, no EQ) too. Maybe I should just buy a dirt cheap DVD/CD player and tough it out of the next few years.

I dont think it matters if your tv has hdmi 1.3

I am please with my 720p/1080i sony 50" lcd projection.

At my viewing distance ( maybe 12 feet max) I do not think there would be much difference for 1080p.

I plan on getting a '08 denon model...not sure about what hd format or player to buy into (thinking strongly hd-dvd at this point). That will be a few months down the line anyway.

I use my 360 as a dvd player, It is the model with component inputs not hdmi. I suppose I will be running my dvds to my denon with component video and optical audio cable for the surround sound.

I have no idea if this configuration will allow for me to take advantage of the best sound formats that are available on dvd or not...

I figured I will have to get a hd-dvd player to take advantage of all the new surround sound formats, one that connects via hdmi.

Like i said, I don't think it matters what version hdmi your tv has, you do not need to send the sound formats to your tv anyway. I am unaware of any video advantage that hdmi 1.3 currently has over older hdmi versions.

Mojo,

To make this simpler to explain and digest, you need to separate the video and audio aspects. Disclaimer: I do not consider myself the HD SME and most likely have some of my facts messed up. Feel free to correct me as I am learning this daunting thing call HD too.

Video –

To view HDCP (High Definition Copyright Protection) encrypted material, you MUST use HDMI. Only HDMI carries the electronic handshaking information that is required to transmit the material. Anything above NATIVE 480P is considered HD. The only exception to this rule that I am aware of, is the Xbox 360 which will output 720P/1080i over Component.

HDMI 1.1 will carry all, current release HD/BR DVD formats. 1.3 ads deep color (24 bit I believe). I suspect it will be a while (possibly years) before we start seeing disks with deep color.

Audio –

This is a bit more complicated. All HD and BR disks carry a “core” DTS or DD data stream imbedded in the more advanced codec’s on the disks, and this core DTS or DD data stream can be transmitted via bit stream through HDMI, optical or coax to an audio processor. The audio processor decodes the bit stream data and converts it to PCM. Think of this bit stream data as a highly compressed audio file comparable to MP3.

Because HD and BR disks have more capacity, they (for the most part) also have an uncompressed (or lossless) data steam on the disks. This data stream could be compared to CD quality.

Where it really starts to get complicated, is with all the new formats. You have numerous High Def bit stream codec’s found on HD and BR disks, including; DD+, DTS-M, DD True HD, DTS HD:M and several others that I can’t remember. The two latest codec’s are DTS-HD-M (master), and DD True-HD. Some HD and BR disks also have an uncompressed Multi-Channel PCM data stream that can be selected in the disk audio set up menu. This is not a bit stream format and in all practical terms, is raw audio data that the audio processor or player does not need to decode. You can also also select PCM or bit stream output in the player’s set up menu. Regardless of the format on the disk, the player will then decode it and output a PCM - if you enable this option (this is handy if the codec is not recognized by the audio processor and there is no Uncompressed PCM audio option on the disk itself). This M-Channel PCM output can only be transmitted via HDMI 1.1 or higher.

In order to hear anything other than the core DTS and / or DD compressed bit stream data that you would find on any SD / DVD, you will need HDMI audio processing of 1.1 or higher. Or, if you buy a BR or HD player that has M-channel analogue outputs, you will get whatever high res audio format that is on the disk because the player will decode them and output via the analogue outputs.

Until very recently, HDMI 1.1 would carry all the available formats (including M-PCM). Now the two latest formats coming out require HDMI 1.3 to carry them (DTS-HD-M and DD TrueHD) in a bit stream format, and only a handfull will decode this and output it via analogue, or HDMI. Not all will decode these two formats and output a M-Channel PCM either.

CD/SACD/DVD-A

In regards to these audio formats, you just have to look at the HD/BR player you are considering. Many, if not all, will play CD. Most will also play SACD and DVD-A. The PS3 does a fine job at SACD and will even up-convert it to 176 Hz via HDMI M-Ch PCM. The one thing none will do that I am aware of is send SACD in DSD format. You will have to use the Oppo 980 for that. Obviously, you will be limited to SACD output to HDMI or analogue output per the particular machine you are looking at. The PS3 does not have analogue, so if you wish to use it for SACD, you will need an audio processor with HDMI audio processing that recognizes M-Ch PCM.

HDMI 1.2 has only one advantage over 1.1 and that is SACD transmission via DSD, but again, you’ll need a SACD player that outputs DSD first and they are far and few between.