Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Help Me Choose - Axiom Vs. Rivals and which Axioms

Hi guys,
i've been speaking to some HT enthusiasts as well as going to different stores to try and find the perfect 7.1 setup for my basement home theater.

Axiom has always been a contender because they're Canadian and well priced, but I'm conscerned as to how they might sound.

Main Rivals that come to mind are:
- Magnepan setup: consisting of 4 MC-1's ( or 2 MC-1 fronts and MCC-W's rear) and the CC3 center mated to a sub that hopefully will be fast enough to keep up with them.

- B&W setup: probably something from the 600 series, havn't heard them yet because you need an appointment at the local dealer 2 do so.

- Focal

I'm going to bay bloor radio in a few hrs to see what they have available.

The axiom setup i'm considering (pending listening approval of course) is one of the following configurations:

1) M22ti for Fronts on my bookshelf, VP150 center, 4 QS8's for surround, EP500 sub for bass (maybe 2 later on down the road).

2) M60 towers for fronts place about a foot infront of my tv/wall unit bookshelf thingy, VP150v2 center, 4 QS8's for surround, 1 EP500 sub.

Things I liked about the magnepans when i listened to them with music: unbelivable clear, you can hear strings on the guitar, each note, everything. Bad thing about them: not really and low range sound so subwoofers or 2 are a must. May not be dynamic enough for home theater?

Oh, my room specs are as follow (pics to come if needed): total basement room is 12 feet wide, 8 feet tall and about 30 feet long. 15-17 feet of the room is home theater (so 12Wx17Lx8H). the home theater area has a brick fireplace on the left side and where the tv is tehre is a library unit surrounding it on the back wall. The whole place is carpeted and soft funiture consists of: paintings, an L-shape arrangement of 2 sofas, and some other typical basement stuff.

What do you guys think? Also, i'm in the Toronto area, if there would be any one kind enough to let me audition a pair, I will bring the beer and snacks

Thanks and best regards,

Omar (possible future axiom owner )

Skip the M60 and go for the M80, they are much clearer(I just did this). For HT a subwoofer is still a must so the Maggies lack of low end isn't that big of a deal. The M80s I can hear the strings reverberating as well as the pluck on good recordings.

Sounds like you just need to hear some Axioms, so come you guys out in Ontario, speak up and let this future Axiom owner have a listen.

jake, thanks for your thoughts.
my reason initially for not listing the M80's as an option was the fact that they are 4 ohm.

My new Onkyo 705 will probably not be able to run them but it would run anything else in the product line. I suppose it isn't a major conscern since i can connect the other speakers to the reciever and then the M80's to a 2nd hand stereo amp.

Hey Omar,

Glad to see you away from AVS.

The 60's would be fine, you don't have to go with 80's. I owned 60's for many years before my current 80's, and I would not say the 60's are lacking in detail.

Just to give you an idea, the 60's have been mentioned time and time again to be as good or better than B&W 703's, so they would be in a different league from the 600 series. I almost purchased a pair of 703's 5 or so years ago, that was until I heard my 60's.

My room is much bigger than yours, and my 60's were very adequate. Everyone has a different opinion, but not sure I would say the 80's are much cleaner. Yes, they have a bit more detail, but that is because of dual tweeters and midrange. This does not mean the 60's can't perform. They are beautiful sounding speakers.

You could also go with 22's and a sub combination to get fabulous results.

Randy

hi sirquack

yeah AVS forum is a bit...er....hardcore?

I think that might be the word I'm looking for. Unless you're talking about how to create 3d holographic images or link 8 amps to power the world's greatest 2 channel, i have a feeling it isn't noob friendly Lots of good info though.

I think i will give the 60's a try, worst case scenario is i don't like em and trade em back to try the m22's.

Heard some definitive speakers at bay bloor today and honestly for the price I was not impressed.

Hopefully Axiom will give me what i'm looking for because i'm REALLY not looking forward to try and place a set of maggies in my room

Keep in mind if you order from the factory outlet you save 10%. You also get the usual 5% if you purchase 5 or more items, which includes any 5 items.

Your Onkyo should make the 60's sing.

I found the 60s laid back especially compared to the M22s I have, which is what prompted me to exchange the M60s for the M80s. The detail is there with the 60s, you just have to listen more carefully or crank them up a bit to get the open/airy, transparent, sound the M80s have.

The Onkyo would most likely would work but not to high volumes.

The M60s are definitely easier listening than the M22s with those 6 1/2" drivers. They are not as forward as the M22s, the vocals take a back seat to the music, but they have a richer warmer/fuller sound than the M22s.

I am sure you will like the M60s enough to wonder what the M80s sound like.

Interesting, I think that is the first time I've heard someone think the 60's are laid back compared to their little brothers and sisters. In the years I owned 60's, and the many auditions I held at the plex, most people felt my 60's were actualy a bit forward.

Now the 60's to 80's, I can see where someone would experience a bit more in those areas you mention.

Music style, room acoustics, placement, personal taste, etc... all have to do with the end result.

I've heard this same comment before. There's no question in my mind that the 60s are more laid back than the 22s. I'm starting to suspect that Axiom made some major changes.

good to know
is the factory outlet different from the website?

Do these speakers need 2 be "broken in" before you hear what they will sound like in the long run?

And lastly, i think i want to try out the M80's. The maggies will cost around that much, so might as well give axiom a fair try in the same price range.

I don't have a 4 ohm reciever, but would it be possible to still plug in just the two speakers (and maybe the center) just to test them out in the short run? will there be a high risk of damage to the speakers or reciever?

Mojo, I don't think the 60's have changed. I think the reason the 22's may seem to be brighter is because they don't have the same bass extention, so your not hearing the whole package a full range speaker offers.

Omar, I have a link on my home page of my website link below, or if you go to Axiom's shop online link at the top, there is a link there for the factory outlet.

Speakers don't break in, Axiom will even tell you this, some on AVS will tell you different. Just enjoy them and don't worry about some break in period, that maybe takes a few seconds.

If you want the 80's go for it, I just don't want these other guys to scare you away from the 60's, there is no basis, just opinion, as is my opinion.

Your receiver should play the 80's fine. However, there could be a point at some level or period of time where the Onkyo may shut down. Alan from Axiom has not recommended Onkyo's for years. The newer models have a better track record.

I personally don't think you'll have a problem as long as you don't crank it. You won't regret listening to the 80s.

Excellent, I am now giddy with anticipation
If I do decide to keep the M80's, do you think a 2 channel amp for the M80's and then just running the rest off the reciever will be a good setup? My conscern is that might make the front left/right overly powerful and out of balance with the rest of the setup.

Nope, a lot of people run it like that. As long as you balance the levels with an SPL meter (which you should do in any case), you'll be fine.

Omar, welcome to Axiom. Your 705 would work fine with any of the Axiom speakers, including the M80s, so don't allow that to be a limiting factor in your choice. Lab tests of the various Onkyo models of the present and recent past have shown a very substantial 4ohm capability and should do the job in the vast majority of setups.

EXCELLENT NEWS

I guess i'll go ahead and order the M80's with EP150 center.
is there anything i should know about the 30-day trial/return policy?

How much does return shipping for two big honkin speakers cost by ground? 100$?

I live in Peterborough which is 1.5 hr. drive from Toronto. I just recently (two weeks ago) purchased the M80s. If you can wait until around the end of the month when my home theater renovations will be finished, I will gladly audition my M80s and EP500 for you.

Or, you could buy the 150 later and just use the 80's to simulate the center dialog, many do this in the beginning. Then you would have a little more change for the sub or surrounds at this time.

Isn't Toronto pretty close to Dwight, ON where the Axiom plant is at? If it was me I would go pick up my speakers at the plant, that way you save shipping. Plus, you get a great tour and see all your options.

wheelz, that would be awsome!
please let me know when you have completed your renos.
what are you adding in to your room?

Omar, I'm in Burlington 40 minutes or so away and have M60's, VP150 and QS8's all the original Ti versions. I also have a pair of M3's V3 in a Vassallo finish. You're more than welcome to come out anytime to get a sampling of what Axiom has to offer.

Let me know,
Graeme

HAY,

I'd like to take you up on that offer. Please let me know when would be most convenient for you.

I heard axiom just introduced a trade-up program too. This seems to be quite the great little company as far as customer service goes.

2nd to none Customer Service that is.

If you would like to come sooner you can. My M80's and EP500 are set up to listen to (enjoying them now ), but my room is empty until its painted, new furniture etc. I don't work, so I have a pretty open schedule, weekdays/weekends. Let me know.

Khan,

Everyone should be born with a pair of M80s. There is no reason for humans to be penalized with less capable electro-acoustic transducers.

The more I hear other speakers and the more I listen to the 80s, the more I am convinced that Ian and his team have created a speaker that has no equal within their price range and slightly above. The 80s are, in my opinion, one of the best kept secrets in the audio world. If it was I who created this wonder, me and my disciples would be walking God's green earth evangelizing its existence to no end.

The 80s are crisp, clear, warm, accurate, articulate, involving, cohesive, balanced and tight at any sound pressure level. You'll be amazed, like others that have listened to them, at the soundstage they form. You will never tire of them and the more speakers you listen to, the more you will congratulate yourself on your exceptional taste.

So you think they're ok, then?

I think he was using irony and subtly telling us to sell our M80s...

OK. Anyone want mine? I think he wants us all to get Bose 601s.

I think my buddy's (formerly mine) are the last pair in the world. And he said he's never parting with them because he likes the way all those paper drivers are arranged on the top. So sorry...you guys are out of luck .

Just don't toe them in to much

Or try to tri-amp them .

^ but amps look so pretty with all their glowy blue lights

have any of you heard the Dynaudio 42 series system?

I'm going to be having a listen to them as well. Seems mighty expensive for just some bookshelfs (same price as the M80's) but the dealer is just across the street from my work, so what the heck.

it seems That within my price range the only B&W's that i can get are 600 series so i'm not too thrilled about that. any comparisons to make there?

Generally we hear about the Axioms being compared to the 700 series. I've never heard either.

Having just done direct comparisons between these 3 speakers, there is infact an audible difference between the them.

The M22s are the most forward for the reason you mentioned, they lack that warmth/fullness of the 6 1/2 drivers.

The M60s are slightly muted compared to the M22 or the M80 because they lack the extra mid9and tweeter in the M80) to compensate for the presence of the 6 1/2 driver. Now this only a very slightly muted sound, something along the lines of a few layers of grille cloth in front. Had I not been listening to M22s for a few years prior to my purchase of the M60s I most likely would have not known the M60 wasn't as forward as the M22.

The M80 has it all, the forwardness of the M22 and fullness of the M60.

And you now are part of the blessed minority on this earth that owns a pair .

Let us know what you think of Dynaudio.

will do. many thanks to forum members who have been nice enough to let me audition their axiom setups.

my fun schedual is actually something like this this week:
thursday - Axiom Demo (M80's i believe)
friday - B&W and Dynaudio test at store
sat - Axiom M60 demo

this week isn't going by fast enough

Not till Thursday! This is going to be one of the longest weeks of your life. On the plus side, only 3 more sleeps to go before the fun begins.

i couldn't help notice that there's no real discussion about the m50 in the forums (infact a search turned up no threads).

is it the bastard stepchild of the product range?

There is a M50 posse out there and I am sure they will be along soon to speak up for the forgotten member of the Axiom group.

BTW, Welcome to Thursday! Let the games begin.

Unfortunately the search function isn't working 100% and it's not finding any threads.

When I was at the Axiom factory they had M50's and M80's hooked up for A/B testing along with the EP500 and EP600 also on A/B testing.

The 50's are very nice speakers and what I was originally looking to buy. Due to them not having the mid range driver(s) the 50's seem a little more laid back and the bass more pronounced. I think that the 50 is a more forgiving speaker and a very nice one. I just wanted that little extra clarity and overall smoothness of the entire sound though and opted for the 60.

I'll tell you what I'm curious about.

Has Axiom ever done blind testing with all of their speakers together? If so, I'm really curious what the results of that are.

I think you didn't use the search right... You have to disable the "newer than" feature to get any real results.

Ken, were you able to pull any results? I tried a few different ways and went for 7 years or newer. I just tried again, this time blanking it out and still no results on M50.

Right you are. Something's a mite screwy with the search again... It doesn't find M80, either.

WooHoo! Thursday has come and gone1
Wheelz999 was nice enough to let me come by and demo his M80's and 500 sub!
sweeeeeeet speakers man! I had actually just heard the klipsch RF-83 towers not more than an hr ago and they're the same price so i had the chance to do a back to back comparison and the axioms win definitely. Klipsch just has too much low-end on their towers and not enough high end clarity.

So far the M80's are as close as I've gotten to the magnepans without actually going to a ribbon tweeter.

Wheelz, thanks once again, i really appreciate it.

Yeah!! Now that's what I'm talkin' about. Mojo doesn't lie...at least not intentionally .

So when are you ordering the 80's? And don't forget to mention Wheelz as the auditioner as he is entitled to some Axiom bucks if you do buy.

See we don't mislead, Axioms are a great deal for the price you pay.

Too bad you couldn't have had a true A/B comparison the differences become even greater.

not gonna lie, the free high gloss finish axiom's offering right now only sweeten's the pot.

i'm tempted to just not even bother listening to B&W's

Try doing a search for pics of the High Gloss Cherry. I guarantee you will want to order some M80s right away!

Oh ya, if the HG Cherry worked better in the WAF department I would be sending the M80s back for a set.

hey guys,
how long does it take for speakers to arrive from axiom?

i'm going to go ahead and order some M80's. I heard a used set of B&W 704's and the final tossup will be between those two.

Are you going to A/B the 80s with the 704s?

It took 4 business days for mine. For you, it may only be one or two business days.

yep, going to do an A/B with the 704's and their matched center channel the HTM7

i'm going to keep the axiom sub though...i dont think there's anything in my price range that will pound as hard as a Ep500 or 600.

Everything else i've tried in the GTA has been like...2500$ and up...nuts to that.

That's great. I look forward to the comparison.

Omar, I received my speakers two days after I put my order in.

Cam

bad news guys...it seems as if the B&W front sound stage will stay. they sound friggin wikid (like the M80's but with more projective ability and this really wide projected soundstage). The call between the M80's and the 704's was close..each having slight advantages over the other.

Ultimatly the final decision came down my significant other who i'm almost certain picked the B&W's for its more artsy feminine style rather than the M80's awesome "guy look" (M80's just scream: jesus christ i'm going to get my brains blown out by sound )

I would like to take this opportunity to thank wheelz and HAY once again for inviting me into their homes and letting me hear their setups as well as all of you guys who offered advice and suggestions.

Surround sound duty will be handled by QS8's though...B&W wants so much cash for their in roof surrounds they can cram them up their a**. Sub will either be an EP350 or EP500.

Anyhow, this forum has been terrific and everyone seems really nice...hopefully you won't chase me off with pitchforks for not buying a complete axiom setup *hides behind a brick wall to dodge incoming bullets*

I think if I could afford 704s I might have gone that route myself, Glad to hear you feel the QS8s are worth the money compared to the others. Stick around lots of others have mixed systems as well.

BTW, post pics of those not so bad boys

Pitchforks that fire bullets? Give me one of those and you can stay!

I've been hoping to find someone local on these forums that has a pair of B&W 700 or 800 series. None of the usual contacts i know in town have had them cross their paths.
It is an A/B test i've been trying to have myself for some time now. I may have to break down and buy a used pair at some point.

Enjoy the B&Ws. I wouldn't mind listening to a pair sometime either.

If you build it, they will come

Mojo,
you're welcome to come by sometime, as is anyone else who'd like to have a listen. Just give me some time 2 grab the EP500 and HTM7 centerchannel tho first

Or dogs......or killer bees.......or dogs that spit out killer bees when they bark!!

Thanks, Khan. I'll keep that in mind next time I'm in TO.

+ 10 points for the simpsons quote

+10 more for the quote within a quote within a quote. It's always a beauty to behold.