Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Talk me out of ...

... buying a Hsu VTF3 HO w/Turbo to complete my system. The reviews are glowing, Craig over at AVS has it rated as performing about 20% better than the more expensive Axiom EP 500 and just barely below the JL Audio Fathom 112 which weighs in with an MSRP nearly 3x the cost of the Hsu, and, as noted here, the price is certainly right. Sure it's ugly as sin but I'm more interested in price/performance than aesthetics. Has anyone here heard anything very negative about this one?

The only thing going against it is the looks. Let me put it another way. If the turbo didn't do for the sound more than it took away from aesthetics, then they wouldn't have made it. The tradeoff, therefore, is likely worth it.

From what I have read the Hsu with turbo is a heck of a sub to beat for the money. I like the way it looks.

Let us know what you think. I'm curious about how well it blends and how it does with movies and music.

Sort of like an old Tran-Am with a blower, no? If I go with it I'll have a tough time resisting the urge to slap a gold screaming chicken decal on there.

This sub is the other one I was considering, but I decided to stick with Axiom for aesthetic reasons, as well as the DSP factor. Oh, and also the fact that they never seemed to have them in stock when I was ready to order.

I'm also interested in impressions from people who own them.

Make it a little smaller, and put an R/C car frame under it and it would look like some little hybrid cleaner/gonk droid thing running around on the Death Star...

Maybe a little sticker of Calvin pi**ing on an SVS or something?

Looks like a black washing machine from a distance... but I agree with Peter.. the trade-ff is probably worth it. Hopefully it'll sound best where it's hidden from view! Just kiddin.. it should all about performance in the end. And...it's in stock!

Please, no Calvin peeing stickers. God, those things are tacky, a likely copyright violation, and completely disrespectful of Bill Watterson and his creation.

Hmm... you seem to have struck a nerve.

I'm all for the screaming chicken, though!

I am interested to know how Craig over at AVS came up with the nubmer, 20%. What is he measuring to come up with a quantitative value like 20%. I have never heard anybody compare audio equipment's performance like this.

I believe Craig has a pretty comprehensive rating system in place--Jack will come by and clarify, I'm sure.

Nevertheless, it's still one guy's opinion. A well respected and experienced guy, yes, but an opinion.

Ok, I just had a look at this thing. It looks like a homemade 1970's cardboard box robot costume some kid slapped together for Haloween. Those 2 ports look like giant eyes that would be looking at me. That would give me the creeps!

This thing has to sound better than an EP500, cuz it's the only way to justify having one in your living room!

Are you sure this isn't a leftover prop from a Star Trek or Land of the Lost episode.

Alright, I have stoped laughing now, time to be serious. If you like this sub, (not laughing now) go ahead and get it. I am sure you will be pleased. HSU has a great reputation.

But for me, a DSP chip is worth a few extra hundred bucks. To know that I will never damage the sub is piece of mind I was / am willing to pay for.

Good - beat Jack here! Whew, need to take a nap.

Jack and I were at Craig's subwoofer shoot out a couple of years ago and were very impressed with the EP500. Crisp, deep, well defined bass that decayed nicely. Bass as bass should be (and a significant upgrade from my SVS 20-39 PCi. REALLY liked the EP500. ALOT. Matter of fact, Craig offered to sell me the thing a couple of months later for a pretty nice (used equipment) price.

At that point, I was into finishing the basement so I could unload my system from boxes and set it up again (including my 20-39 PCi). The finished room was 19'x27'and cost enough that a new sub wasn't going to happen.

Fast forward to a GTG Craig had this September. About 35 people attended (including Jack & I). Craig pre-published a pretty big list of equipment that was for sale (stuff he had gotten for testing/playing with) on a pick up/take with basis. Included a HSU VTF-3 HO w/turbo. Almost went for it, but passed on it.

On the drive home, I thought about it quite a bit and thought, "What the hell was I thinking?". Providence provided a solution for me.

Jack came to visit last month. His route took him past Craig's place (about 10 minutes off the Thruway). I called Craig and asked if he still had the Hsu, answer was yes and a sale was made. Jack picked it up and delivered it.

Here is why I bought it. I had looked a Craig's Sub shoot out list and the HSU and EP500 were pretty closely rated. I also highly respect Craig's knowledge and technical expertise. When asking Craig how the Hsu performed/why should I buy it, he immediately referred back to the sub shoot out at his place two years ago and said - "Remember how much you liked the EP500 and the way it performed? The Hsu is almost identical."

I am absolutely thrilled with the Hsu. Once Jack and I wrestled it into my basement, set it up and calibrated everything, we listened to some snippets. Then we got Craig on the phone and had a great discussion, with Craig making some suggestions/observations. One of the interesting things he shared was that he preferred the HSU without the turbo, feeling that the bass was a bit cleaner . Didn't go as low as with the turbo (still down around 18-19 Mhz), but had more headroom. Tried it both ways and I also like it better without the turbo.

Why am I telling you all of this? Well, I think I have a relatively unique perspective on comparing the two units and I also wanted to tie in Craig's excellent test results. The thing that stood out for me when I heard the EP500 was the distinctly clear quality of the LFE (arriving, playing and decaying). Hard to forget. Craig's comment that it and the Hsu were almost identical is spot on.

If your decision is between the 2 units, consider the bass to be a non-issue in the decision. Both units are excellent for the money. Appearance, finish, size, specs, DSP chip, price matching your other equipment, etc. - those are really the areas you will use as a tie-breaker. You absolutely CANNOT make a mistake with your decision relative to LFE output.

Good luck with it.

Well hells bells Ray that was a good reply.

Well nuts! Rick got his post in before mine so my arrow looks like I'm pointing to
Rick, when actually, it's supposed to be pointing to Ray. So, Rick, I'm not referring to you as stupid.






However, on second thought.............

Hmmm, I was confused by your comment Rick.... until I read Jack's comment (including arrow) and then reviewed 1500 or so of my posts.

Then I understood why you were so surprised that I came up with a good reply.

Ray, that was a good reply! Interesting comment about preferring the sub without the turbo. Goes to show you the current trend in subs nowadays--nevermind the sound, let's try to blow your socks off!

Many thanks to everyone who replied and particularly to you Ray for an extremely informative response! That really takes a lot of the agonizing out of the decision process.

FWIW regarding the ratings from someone who's never met Craig and likely never will: he's quick to point out that they're one guy's opinion and YMMV; that on his scale 3 point = 15% which is a performance differential most folks wouldn't notice; and that a critical listener might well come to quite different conclusions. I'm sure they're not the be-all end-all but to someone like myself who's in the market and has no real brand loyalty they're a very nice way to quickly determine a range of models to consider with the knowledge that they're all going to be solid performers.

There is also the epiksubwoofers.com he has some ranked on there too and pretty high.

I hope I came across correctly - I was replying in a humorous vein to Rick.

To be sure - with or without the turbo, the sub blows your socks off, and most anything else you have on!!! I also think the turbo-less approach tends to increase the likelihood that the REAL decision maker who lives in each of our homes will be a bit less critical about the sub to begin with. Also makes a nice end table.

The EP500 will certainly have a better finish. Tough choice between the two of them.