Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions EP500 Noise/Surge Suppression

Hello,

First post here but I have been an Axiom EP500 owner for nearly 2 years now and love it! I should have done this sooner but I need to buy a good quality surge protector/noise suppressor for this unit and wanted to know what other Axiom users prefer. I have a Panamax for my front end. I get noise from the microwave occasionally and would love something to stop that as well.

Thanks!

Dave

I plug my ep600 and twin ep350v3's right into the outlet, I would not use a surge/noise suppressor, but that is me. Most high end Amp and Speaker companies will tell you the same.

I use a Monster sub outlet for my sub and a surge protector on my Rotel amp.

A year ago I asked Axiom the same question for my EP-500 and this was Brent's reply:

"Check out Belkin, APC or Tripplite surge protectors, all are superb units. Look to a joule count of 700 or more."

Panamax Max 2 Sub has gotten a good review from Kal Rubinson of Stereophile. I am using a similar product at present.

John

Thanks to everyone that replied to questions in HT! I am in the beginning stages of building my first HT system and now researching surge protector/surpressors. Maybe I'm over-analizing
the topic but it seems crucial to choose the right product for your equipment used.http://computer.howstuffworks.com/surge-protector4.htm I just finished reading this info and would like to know what you guys recommend. What kind of protection should I use for my Sony Bravia xbr4 and HT electronics? Many companies introduce alot of hype into their "high end" products to get you to spend unnecessary $.

A few details that sound important are chosing products with UL ratings as a transient voltage surpressor, high joules(energy absorbant/dissipation ratings) of 700 or more and a protector with an indicator light. I also found the only protection against lightning is to unplug your electronics. I am now finding that every aspect of chosing and building my 1st HT system is very tedious and takes a great deal of research, oh and $$$$. Well I'm committed and will be setting up an Epic 60.500 with a Denon 3808ci. I'm starting with all wiring, cables and accessories then will be diving into the main course. Thanks for all replies.

demetman

Your speaker & amp combo is going to be awesome! Awesome sounding speakers and the usefulness of the 3808i.

I bought this one for $70 some dollars because it had a few places for coax and a couple of phone and Ethernet jacks. HD Satelite Receiver has two coax coming into it. I'm not worried about any noise reduction, I just know that funky power can come in on any wire from the outside, not just the electrical outlets.

I have my sub and receiver plugged directly into a separate outlets so they don't get strained sharing power with all the other devices on the power strip. The Denon is supposed to have a pretty well protected power supply built in so I hope it will be OK.

I agree with your lightning theory. It can be so powerful it can jump right through an open protection circuit. Not much can stop it. Some simple designs work pretty well, like the one that hopefully protects your phone line on the outside of your house, but even these can't stop a big blast.

When I worked for the Dept of Health, the hospital put in a new parking system with 4 kiosks and 2 booths. All were connected in a ring configuration for data. Each one had a supposedly 'lightning proof' protector on each side of the unit so if one got hit by lightning, it would protect the others.

For some reason these things were like lightning magnets for a while. (Perhaps the ring of underground cable around the grounds does something to build up charge, dunno.) In the three or more years I worked there, it got hit by about lightning about 5 times. First three times a single hit took out every single kiosk. Circuit boards were unrecognizable charred masses, including the protection pieces.

I gained a lot of respect for lightning. Respect for that kiosk company, not so much. I hear they put in heftier protectors and did something that reduced the chance of lightning strikes since then (10 dollar ground rod maybe? )

Absolutely. I had a router interface fry a couple of years ago when a tree took out the power/telco lines. One thing that I've never been able to find out, though, is which sorts of interfaces the RJ and coax connections on these surge suppressors are good for -- eg. they're only expecting POTS, or if they'll do appropriate things with gigE, ISDN BRI, etc.

Any problems with ground loops?

What are you referring to by " if they'll do appropriate things with gigE, ISDN BRI ?"

An RJ45 jack will be pinned out ok for POTS, Ethernet of all speeds, and ISDN. Aside from it's promise of surge protection, all it really has to do is maintain an electrical connection between your two patch cords.

Now re. the cable inside from the [in jack] to the [out jack], I would hope that the connecting cable inside between the in and the out is twisted correctly to maintain shielding up to at least CAT5 standards, maybe even CAT6 (either might be pushing it.) But honestly, I'm not sure. I wouldn't be surprised to see straight pairs.

Even if wasn't, the very tiny distance from the in jack to the out jack probably wouldn't result in enough distance to degrade the signal. Although, maybe being in close proximity to so many other power cords introduces a problem? Damn it! Stop making me paranoid. LOL!

Perhaps our local electrical engineer can fill us in.

The properties of the devices they use for managing nasties have to match the application. They can't use the same MOVs for Ethernet for example as for POTS. The MOVs have parasitic capacitance that can attenuate the Ethernet signal. It's quite challenging actually to provide cost-effective, space-conscious, low let-through protection for high speed signals.

Mojo describes what concerns me more than distance/shielding issues. When looking at a product description online, it's often difficult to tell if the RJ's are 4/6/8 way, and it's a good bet that the manufacturer has never heard of ISDN. Hopefully I'll never have to use ISDN again, but it's still unclear if it's safe to run 100/1000 ethernet -- not to mention DS1/T1 -- through one of these things.

Best way to find out is to do a BER test.

BER?

Bit Error Rate.

OIC. Would want to be sure ahead of time that simply plugging the thing in wasn't going to fry my equipment.

No, that won't happen.

Good to know. I though it meant Beer-induced Erratic Ranting.

Thanks Mojo, I was hoping you would chime in. I had no idea that the MOVs had to fit the application other than their size and durability to the task at hand.

Heh heh, Funny, I remember when everyone was jealous of my work provided, ISDN line at home back when everyone else had dial. Then I became the slower, jealous one because people in the cities were getting DSL. Thankfully, I now have a very speedy DSL connection.

Anywhoo, I ran my old ISDN through the RJ-11 jack on my surge protector with no troubles. However, I have no idea if it was designed for that or how sensitive the line would have been to the deviation.

Murph,
Thanks for the reply and recommendation with the Tripp Lite HT1010SAT! I ordered this model from J&R.com for $56.55 shipped. This product makes great sence when looking at performance and price point. I'm starting to get very busy at work which may slow the process of completing this project(heck, even starting it for that matter). I'm in no rush and know this whole process will take a great deal of time and patience to do it right. I'm sure plenty questions will arise and I thank you for your input.

Regards,
demetman

I'm sorry to bring this topic back up, but my question has somewhat to do w/ this and placement of subs. Here real soon I will be getting an EP500 and an EP350 for my home theater. My question is, I have very limited electrical outlets (4 in all)down in my theater.
My main speakers are on my south wall of my basement, but there is no electrical outlets there. I only have the outlets halfway in my room on both sidewalls (east and west). Would it be practical to plug in the subs directly to the wall sockets, one on the east wall and one on the west wall, almost facing each other, but not quite. I'm talking a difference of 5 to 8 feet, or do I need to buy a longer electrical cord that has the same rating of the ones that come with the axioms and set it up by my front speakers? If this makes any sense.

________________________________________
I__m60________vp150_______________M60__I
I______________________________________I
I______________________________________I
I______________________________________I
I______________________________________I
I______________________________________I
I_______________________________>ep500_E
I______________________________________I
I______________________________________I
E______________________________________E
I_ep350<_______________________________I____________I
I___________________________________________________I
I___________________________________________________E
I___________________________________________________I
I_QS8___________________________________________QS8_I
I___________________________________________________I
I___________________________________________________I
I___________________________________________________I

Sorry for the amatuer diagram, :^), but I labeled the walls E where there's an outlet. So as you can see, I don't have much outlets to work with. I put the greater than and less than marks beside the subs to show you which way they will be pointing. Any help with this situation is greatly appreciated!

Derek, I'm not following what the reason for your concern is. Certainly you can plug the subs directly in to the wall sockets.

I think he's worried about the subs being almost directly across from one another

Sorry if I wasn't clear JohnK, my biggest concern is with both subs almost facing each other, I didn't know if there is a concern with cancellation issues.

Edit: Yeah onn, that was my main concern. Thank you.

Okay, the factor of the subs facing each other doesn't increase the cancellation factor. In fact, the best locations that were found in the often-cited Harman study on multiple subs were directly opposite each other at the mid-points of the side walls or the front and back walls. An unavoidable partial cancellation effect occurs when two subs(or two of any speakers)play the same sound and the subs/speaker cones are separated by one-half wavelength of that sound. For example, if the speaker drivers are 10' apart, a partial cancellation would occur if they simultaneously played a sound around 56Hz(whose wavelength is about 20', calculated from 1130/56). So it's the distance of separation that's significant, not if the subs are facing each other.

Thank you for your input JohnK. I really do appreciate it! That makes me feel alot better about the placement of my subs. Is this when I need to adjust the phase accordingly to each sub?

No, the phase adjustment would help at that one frequency(56Hz in the example), but might cause an overall reduction at other frequencies, for a net loss.

Ok, I see what you're saying now.

Oops I posted without noticing there were more replies on a new page, again. I'll leave this one hear though in case it adds anything to his question.

There is no reason 'requiring' you to have them on the front wall with you front speakers. The lower frequencies from subs are non directional so you won't be able to tell that the sound isn't coming from up front.

Now that being said, to really perfect the benefits of a two sub combination, you will want to experiment with moving them around as much as is practical, to find the best positions that even out the bass response in the room.

Although it's not necessarily going to be the right answer for your room, I'd probably at least start with a small extension cord for the left sub to push it up so it fires directly across the room at the 2nd sub on the right. As John mentioned, this is one of the common scenarios that is in easy reach of your electrical outlets.

Sub placement can be complicated but there are lots of good articles and posts if you look for them.