Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Got my M80Ti's...Where is the bass?

First, let me say that they are amazing speakers that really define what great highs and mids should be. That being said...I am somewhat disappointed with the lack of bass from these speakers. I just replaced some JBL G400s that had good bass, but they also had a 10" woofer in them. I do have a (less than musical) sub that fills in where the M80s leave off.

Am I expecting too much?

Superstar- tell us a little about your setup, gear, and placement in the room. That would help get the suggestions going for you.

-Kevin

I'm guessin that one of the major issues is that you're not used to tight, clean, accurate bass. I've read a few reviews of the JBL G400's and their bass is quite often referred to as "big", "boomy", "slow"...

Going from that to the M80ti's is going to be a dramatic change. You're ears are accustomed to a big huge punch in the chest from the JBL's over-the-top boomy bass.

Your JBL might well have a hump in the 80-200Hz region that may provide a subjective impression of a "punchy" bass depending on personal preferences (I know many JBL speakers do this). The Axioms don't -- the M80's bass is highly accurate, tight, and "fast," which you may feel anemic at first. That said, the M80s may somewhat lack the energy in the very bottom octave (20-40Hz) depending on the room placement (I doubt that the JBLs have a real, clean energy in this region, either). A good sub will certainly help in the bottom octave.

I agree with all the responses so far. One thing I'd recommend to try to bring out the most bass is is adjusting the room placement. Try moving the speakers away from the walls a bit, at least 2 feet away to start with.

Once you get used to a tight, flat bass response, you'll wonder how you ever put up with boominess.

give it some time. I want to hear your thoughts in a month from now, I'd wager you'll be pleased with the bass response.

Supe, sushi's comments in particular may be pertinent. The M80s have accurate bass; it's possible that the JBLs were unnaturally prominent in the upper bass and that you became used to that as being normal and good.

A remote possibility, but it actually happened to someone here about a year ago: since the M80s have two sets of terminals, be sure that the jumper connecting them is tight so that the bass drivers are actually working.

I find my M80's bass sounds boomier the closer I position them back toward the rear wall, so I have mine placed aprox. 10" from back wall. Try various placements and other advise here, good luck!

I have 2 new M80Ti's connected to a HK AVR55. Infinity Sterling center (VP150 next week?), new QS8s, and a JBL 10" 150 watt sub (HSU in the near future). The M80s are 7' apart and about 2" from the front wall. the listening position is 10' from the M80s. the speakers are not towed in and are not in a corner of any kind. I double checked the speaker connections and they are fine. 10' of 12 ga. 99.9999 (semiconductor grade) copper wire in Tyvek sheathing to each.

They're only two inches from the wall? Or was that a typo? If so, give them some room!

What is your room size? It seems that you're kind of cramped. 2" from the wall, 7' apart, 10' from listening position...sounds like you're trying to squeeze some very big speakers into a very small space.

No typo. I'll try to move them out a little.

As for the room, I used a tape this time and got:

13' from speaker front to ears
8.6' between speakers

The room itself is 16' x 22' *BUT* has 22' ceilings, 25' of open catwalks over it, and 16' of door openings on the ground floor. I figure it to be ~7000 cubic feet. Does this make more sense as to the choice of the M80s? Thanks a ton guys!

2 inches from wall. ikes! give em at least a foot from the walls. they need room to breathe. id try and maybe pull them a little further apart if you can. From the sound of things you just plopped em down whereever was convienient. Move them all about and see what happens. im sure you will find a placement that will sound alot better

Wow! Do you live in an underground cavern?! Sounds like you made the right choice with the M80. I still think they can give you some great bass with some placement tweaking.

Keep us posted. We can't stand to see a disappointed Axiom customer if there's anything we can do about it.

When I first got my M60's, I too was diappointed with the bass. I was pushing them with a Onkyo 777 (100W X 5). I then got a Parasound amp (220W X 5); man what a difference. I have not done this, but I think that if I wanted I could turn off my sub and be very happy with the bass that the 60's produce.

Parasound??? Did you know that the name elicits a dangerous jealousy in certain folks here?

By far one of the best improvements that I have made to my home theather sound system. It was like night and day compared to the Onkyo. Of course it cost $2000 and kept me in the doghouse for a while, but I think it was worth it.

What do you use for a pre-amp?

Try one of these to find your bass:

I kind of miss those amps with VU meters... Used to see lots of face plates with VU meters on the electronics rack of audio shops decades ago, not necessarily on the high-end stuff only. Many affordable amps used to have VU meters, too -- often with a peak-hold feature, which is quite useful to see how many wattage you are actually using. Why did they stop featuring analog meters? These days, very few brands, if any, makes amps with VU meters, regardless of the price range.

Ola sushi

I have one of those big Onk 504s driving my front towers (Axiom M60 like Michaura M665s) and an Anthem PVA-5 driving the other 5 channels. I love the meters, I love the way the neighborhood lights dim as it powers up and I love the way it drives these speakers.

Of course, if you can get your hands on a 508 or 588, I'd do it in a flash!

How come does stupid Onkyo market it only in "Asia (not including Japan), Oseania, and Latin America"???

I'm with you there, Sushi. Bummer! The 588 and 588F are not available here in the States anymore. (The 588F was sold here for a while.) The 508 is similar, 200+ wpc in broad band (20Hz-20KHz into 8 ohms) and can be found. Of course there's always the really big ONK - the 200+ pound 510. Very few made. They go for over $3000 used. Here's a picture of one for sale on Audioweb. It'll make your floor sag, your lights dim, but it'll light up your music

Yeah, I love the LED ladder style meters on my Sansui amps! One has red and blue lights and one has amber. Really cool in a darkened room.

Audio Source makes amps with analog VU meters.

Howdy mwc

The Yamaha M80 has 2 vertical rows of red LEDs indicating output. Red lights against black face. Very Xylon. Very powerful.

(continuous power 20Hz-20HKz) 250 watts per channel into 8 ohms (.003%THD); 290 watts per channel into 6 ohms, and 330 watts per channel into 4 ohms. Dynamic power into 8 ohms at 1 KHz, 380 watts per channel, 480 watts per channel into 6 ohms; 640 wpc into 4 ohms, and 850 wpc into 2 ohms. Bandwidth 10-100KHz 80watts into 8 ohms, .03% THD. Signal to noise ratio 127 db.

And of course, Accuphase! -- although at the stratospheric prices...

Me likey!!

sushi, probably similar to multi-meters. the analog displays are more costly that digital displays.
dan

Probably true, Dan, especially for the meters that are large and esthetically designed such as those pictured above... But there are also VERY few power amps that have digital (or any) VU meters these days. Perhaps, those audiophiles who has $$$ to invest on the luxurious high-powered amps are never interested in what peak wattages they are actually using...

Yeah, the more I think about this, the stranger and sillier it feels that the vast majority of today's multi-grand (and above) amps lack ANY indicators of real-time power output, perhaps except for those measly LEDs for clipping.

What's this?!? I was all happy thinking that most amps and pre-amps are going to sound the same, that way I could upgrade the rest of my system EXCEPT for my receiver (Yamaha rxv 3000). Now I read this thread and it looks like you guys do think that they make a big difference. This is not what my wife or wallet want to hear!!

Hey, cameron, did I say one word about the sound quality of these amps? As I stated recently, I for one am doubtful that any of these amps will convincingly outperform my Adcom 200W/325Wx2 (8/4-ohm) amp. And more importantly, I know that I cannot hear a convincing difference between my Adcom and the power amp sections of my "lowly" Pioneer 45TX receiver.

But I am also a believer in the looks of audio gears, especially the power amps. I am not talking here about those gimmicky case designs used by some high-end amp brands, but about design elements that are directly derived from function, such as the VU meters.

Didn't you know that, when it comes to amps, the looks is more important than the sound??? HAHAHA...

Ahhhh.. ok, gotcha. Good to hear, I just want to focus on getting the axiom center and rears to go along with my new m60's and then go after another svs (probably a plus).

thanks Sushi.