Bi-amping M80's with a Denon 3808
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Is anybody running the M80's bi-amped with a Denon 3808, and bottom line- do they sound better bi-amped than conventionally? The reason I am asking is because I will be running wires for the fronts through the walls and I only want to do this once. I have been reading about bi-amping and it is reather confusing to me - (more whatts, same amplifier = no more watts, etc. sorry i am a newvie). The speakers have been ordered and I will be ordering the Denon soon so I can't due any testing of my own, but I am runnig all the wiring now and I want to make sure that I can get the most out of these speakers and the receiver. I will be running a 5.1 system.
Thanks all,
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Re: Bi-amping M80's with a Denon 3808
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Joined: Apr 2007
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connoisseur
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from what I have heard it is not worth your time/money to bi-amp the m80's
-David
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Re: Bi-amping M80's with a Denon 3808
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It's not worth your time or money to bi-amp any conventional speaker. You will hear no difference at all.
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Re: Bi-amping M80's with a Denon 3808
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Don't worry about BUYamping, as this is not true bi-amping, more like bi-wiring.
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350 AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85
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Re: Bi-amping M80's with a Denon 3808
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Loud, disregard any suggestion in the Denon manual(or any other)that you can actually bi-amp with a receiver that only has one amp with one main power supply section in it. Making the suggested connection simply feeds the same amount of power through two sets of output transistors(one previously unused for back surrounds)rather than one. Available power isn't doubled or increased at all.
-----------------------------------
Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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Re: Bi-amping M80's with a Denon 3808
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Joined: Nov 2007
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aficionado
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aficionado
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I think its wasted effort, out of curiosity I experimented with bi-amping speakers from my reciever and I couldn't hear any difference.
Dave
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Re: Bi-amping M80's with a Denon 3808
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You can indeed connect multiple channels on the 3808 to one pair of speakers. I believe that you can actually connect as many as three channels to the fronts for example by configuring all channels as fronts in the menu. Randy is correct that this doesn't buy anyone anything but the technical explanation is not correct. The receiver, when connected this way, is actually able to provide more power into a single channel. The problem is that the majority of speakers simply cannot use this power (including the 80s). The reason for this is because the maximum voltage of each amplifier cannot be exceeded (ie. fire and smoke). Since all channels are connected in parallel, your receiver's power supply can indeed dump three times the current into each channel but the rail voltage of each channel is not permitted to exceed its rated value. You'd have to find a very, very low impedance speaker to take advantage of the extra current. Having the current doesn't do any good if your amplifier channels experience voltage collapse. The best explanation I can offer as to why this is made available is so that people can double up on front speakers if they wish. Doubling up on fronts lowers the over-all speaker system impedance thereby requiring more current. So, if you want to take advantage of this method, double or triple the number of M80s for the fronts .
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Re: Bi-amping M80's with a Denon 3808
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Joined: Mar 2008
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Thanks all for your advice. It sounds like bi-amping the 3808 is not worth it. But thinking about this scenario, I am going to run another set of wires for each front. Just in-case one day I have the money to buy separate amps for the fronts or as Mojo says, connecting more M80's to the front. Now... that would be awsome! Imagine two M80's side-by-side or on the top of each other?
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Re: Bi-amping M80's with a Denon 3808
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Joined: Jul 2005
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aficionado
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OK, so that is an interesting idea. Has anyone ever put 4 M80's across the front in a 2 channel config?
Would it sound better, worse, different or the same?
If I had an extra pair of M80's I think I could probably find a different use for them.
And one M80 on top of another, hmmmm, now that would be pretty tippy. Keep the dog, cat, and kids away!!!
paul
Axiom M80, VP180, Qs8, EP500 Epson 3020 Rotel RB-880 Denon AVR-990
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Re: Bi-amping M80's with a Denon 3808
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I think it would probably screw the sound stage and imagining. It would certainly be loud, if the receiver didn't shut down.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: Bi-amping M80's with a Denon 3808
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Joined: Mar 2004
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hobbyist
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I have a 4308 and it is very similar. If you bi amp you will use 4 of the 7 channells to power your front speakers and only be able to have 5.1 surround. I think you would get more power to the front speakers but possibbly not. When you seperate the high and low speakers within the m80's it may also change the impedance from 4 ohm to 8 ohm. Since your receiver will provide less current on account of increased resistance the total power to the speaker will not increase. Check with Axiom to see if the impedence changes when Bi-Amped.
Last edited by butcherbme; 03/19/08 07:37 PM.
Butch
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Re: Bi-amping M80's with a Denon 3808
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I've had M80s, Bose 601s, Nuances, M22s and Sansuis all connected to my fronts at once!. Soundstage...what soundstage ?
House of the Rising Sone Out in the mid or far field Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: Bi-amping M80's with a Denon 3808
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Jason and I also placed M60s on top of M80s. The M60s were inverted...their woofers were up at ceiling level.
Yeah, there was a lot of presence there but we didn't exactly build a line array. It sounded like two separate, vertically-oriented and discombobulated bass images.
House of the Rising Sone Out in the mid or far field Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
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Re: Bi-amping M80's with a Denon 3808
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But it looked very intimidating and very precarious, as one speaker set was slightly tilted ala tower of Pisa.
Jason M80 v2 VP160 v3 QS8 v2 PB13 Ultra Denon 3808 Samsung 85" Q70
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Re: Bi-amping M80's with a Denon 3808
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Joined: May 2002
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Butch, as was said previously, there's no possibility of actually biamping with a receiver which has only one amplifier feeding through several channels. To even start on biamping two separate amplifiers would be needed, as the term implies. Also, an external crossover(with the internal speaker crossover removed or bypassed)before the amplifiers would be needed so that each amplifier would be sent only the desired frequencies.
On your question about a 4ohm speaker turning into an 8ohm speaker, no, each section is nominally 4ohms by itself. 4 ohms doesn't come about as a result of two 8ohm sections being driven in parallel. The action of the crossover keeps the impedance(roughly)at 4ohms.
-----------------------------------
Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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Re: Bi-amping M80's with a Denon 3808
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Yeah, what John said.
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350 AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85
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