Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Reciever upgrade!

So I've been waiting to get into blu-ray once a good player comes out with profile 2.0 and analogue outs (since my reciever doesn't have hdmi). Then I realized that my reciever doesn't apply any bass management or other settings to the multi channel in. It looks like my only option is upgrading my reciever!

Currently I have a Pioneer VSX 1015 TX Thx Select 2 reciever powering a pair of M22's, a VP-150, and a pair of QS-4's, plus a 350 sub. My room is fairly small, no more than 2000 cubic feet.

I've been looking at recievers at my local Best Buy Magnolia store, and I'm looking at either a Denon 3808CI, a Pioneer Elite VSX-94 (or possibly the lower priced VSX-92)or possibly a Yamaha RX V3800. I'm leaning towards the Pioneers because I've been pleased with my current Pioneer, but I know that the Denon is very popular.

Any advice on how these work with regards to decoding the lossless formats as well as how they sound with the axioms?

I would also consider the emotiva LPA-1 and the new XMC-1 of course they are still waiting on a chip to finish the XMC-1 but it will be out by this fall.

I like the sound of my Yamaha RX V1800 paired with the LPA-1 but I don't think I would use the internal Yamaha amps. I will upgrade to a Emotiva processor probably the XMC-1 after I see the reviews.

Others on the forum love the Denon. I would choose it over the Yamaha or the Pioneer IMHO.

I was also considering running Emotiva separates, but that really bumps up my price. One question about the Denon, does it decode all the new codecs? I'm pretty sure it does, but I was on the Denon website comparing all their recievers and it said the 3808 did not support True HD. Of course, that could've been before firmware updates.

yes it decodes:

Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital+ decoding
dts-HD Master Audio decoding

denon 3808 can be had from 6ave.com for less than $1100

How do you get it for that price? Don't you have to call and tell them "I heard about this at avs" or something? Anyways, now I have to save up some money! And decide whether to go for a PS3 or wait for the Sony 550.

I haven't called 6ave to see if that deal is still on, but looking at amazon I see it's listed at 1399 from onecall, and 1299 from dbroth. Are these reputable dealers?

Mario, onecall is very reputable, but so are 6thave and J&R, which at least recently would both sell the 3808 for about $1100 if asked for the best price in a phone call.

Any of the three receivers that you you mention would meet your needs and would all amplify Axioms without adding any audible coloration. The Onkyo 805 and 875 could also be included in the list

My suggestion is to look into the Anthem D2

http://statement.anthemav.com/HTML/Products/D2/D2.html

http://statement.anthemav.com/HTML/Products/D2/downloads/D2_ARC_PDS.pdf

It's pricy, but it simply blows away anything Denon has to offer. I used various Denon products for years and started to feel that the sound was somehow "missing" something. I started to look into it and did commparisons of high end product and very quickly found that Denon seemed to be ... dull. The sound was somehow muted in tone. In the end the Anthem D2 delivered beyond my expectations in quality and features. Yes, you will need a seperate amp (I'm using the Axiom one) but the quality is incredible.

If the Anthem is a bit much in terms of price for ya, I'd suggest looking into Yamaha rec/amp unit. After listening to a demo at a high end store with the same speakers/movie/music I was very surprised to hear the Yamaha perform so well.
In the years I've been evaluating products and using them for my site I become very disapointed in Denon - they've become the over priced bucket of paint that provides less coverage than a thought of lesser brand. (I just recently found out that Glidden makes Ralph Lauren Paint - only the shades are different - why pay $20 bucks more to dip you brush into Ralph!)

- Scott

One of the reasons I chose the denon/pioneer/yamaha choices is that my local bestbuy carries them, so I can actually go there and listen to them and push all the buttons and check it out in person (and return it if I find it unsuitable). No one nearby carries the Onkyo, so that'd end up being a blind buy. The anthem stuff is a bit too pricey for me, I'm just a 22 year old student who's also trying to save up quite a bit of money. Plus I also just splurged on my QS4's and EP350. I'm trying desperately to keep the HT spending in check.

I entertained purchasing a D2 or AMV 50 a while back when they first came out. After a continued and seemingly never ending evolution of bugs and firmware upgrades to address them, it became abundantly clear to me that Anthem owners are beta testers. I’ve been an unsolicited beta tester for several manufactures already and decided that Anthem products were simply too damn much money to be rolled out to consumers with the bugs they had. I passed. Now they are behind the power curve with HDMI 1.1. I know, I know, I’ve heard it a gazillion times and still hear it all the time….. “You don’t need HDMI 1.3" and / or "Anthem will upgrade to 1.3 ”. .. BS is what I say to that. If you are fine without it, and have no need for it great, but I do not think it is a prudent argument to make to someone who is just now getting into the HDMI high rez audio / video game. If you are buying new, buy 1.3 and if you buy gear thinking they will simply "upgraed it from 1.1 to 1.3", you'll be paying through the nose, waiting for weeks without anything to use and when you get it, it'll be bug squishing time all over again. And if you are going to spend the kind of money that Anthem wants for the D2, you owe it to yourself to shop around. That price point opens a lot of doors.

If you're trying to save $ take a hard look at the RX-V663 and see if you can live with 2 HDMI in. I think that this is THE bang for the buck receiver right now.

People are picking it up online for around $350-400.

Yeah, I've seen the 663 at Audioholics and was intrigued. I'm torn between budget instant gratification and getting a heavier duty reciever for future proofing. Of course, by the time I buy this reciever, they'll change to HDMI 1.4g and 9.3 will be the new standard audio format and I will be left cursing myself for getting into such an expensive hobby.

I think the 663 could be looked at as future proofing in that it does all you need right now, has preouts for a more powerful amp later on and it won't break the bank right now so you can cotinue to save for the next pre/pro with the latest codecs in a few more years.
I do own the 3808 and feel the networking capability they went with was it's biggest advantage, I love being able to stream from my NAS directly to it with FLAC files and the 6ave deal is still on just phone and ask for it.

That 6ave is a pretty good deal. I hope it'll last for a little bit so I can scrounge up the cash for it. I still want to go to best buy and take a look at the reciever and get a feel for it before I buy it. Denon made my DVD player, which I am extremely happy with, so I trust them as a brand. I'd rather get it than the Yamaha because it has the scaling capabilities (might make the Wii look super) plus I'd like to play with Audessy since my bedroom theater is not the most ideal conditions. I've got a birthday coming up, so I'm sure I can get enough gift cards to cover a 40 gig PS3 and be on my way to Blu-Ray! Now all I gotta do is work some overtime!

That really depends what features you end up wanting. Its not a fancy receiver so you don't have things like independant crossovers.

On the upside you are much less likely to end up lost in the UI and ending up with a receiver that keeps resetting itself.

There are a couple of good threads on audioholics discussing the pros and cons of this receiver.

Off topic a bit ... I share your pain of not having a receiver that can do base management via the multi-channel inputs.

But note that many players let you do this internally. The Samsung BD-P1400 does NOT let you set cross overs individually (i.e., fronts at 80, rears at 100, etc.), but it does let you choose whether your speakers are large or small, then manages the bass (I believe it cuts off the bass at 100 hz, but it coudl be 80?) accordingly. I haven't yet had an opportunity to complain that my sound isn't good enough using the multi-channel inputs. The enhanced sound is better than my old dolby digital sound by a good margin (surprisingly, I might add) - enough that I have not had the urge to upgrade.

Hi Scott, This isn't meant to be at all argumentative at all, it's curiosity.

When you switched to the Anthem, you had to add a separate amp, the Axiom one...I'm Jealous. At this time did you try running the Denon through the Axiom amp as a processor to see if you had the same results?
.

Just an FYI, I called 6ave today as I'm shopping for my dad's 3808. The deal now is 1050 with shipping (in the states) included.

Murph,
No, I had already gotten rid of the two Denon's. After the Denon I had a Sherourn set-up (both rec and amp). Prior to getting the Anthem I did do a comparison between the Denon and the Sherbourn and found the Sherbourn a better sound and better decoding (decoder). The switching was quicker and cleaner. There was an overall brighter sound without being thinner. It was akin to having your ears pop when they are clogged. Sounds coming from the surrounds were better formed and noticable.
The change over to the Anthem was even more so. A previous poster brought up the HDMI issue on the Anthem not being 1.3 After seeing my Oppo upsampled by the Anthem internal video enhancement I find no reason to get a Blu-ray player at all. I had friends over and went to a store got a Blu-ray player, then rented a film in both Blu and Standard DVD. We did a comparision and found very little difference visually. There was more of a difference when we looked at the standard DVD minus the Anthem processing. There was a difference with the sound, but that too was minor, but better on the Blu. However, we also at the time tested a HD-DVD and found that it had better sound than the Blu. Having worked within the DVD arena as a consultant for years I find the whole Blu thing a wast of time and rip-off for the public. It's really a shame that the studios will NEVER actually use Blu to it's fullest. It costs too much to produce bonus material that would/should fill those discs. There was a lot of boasting about the amount of info that can be stored but no company yet has taken advantage of it. They only are taking advantage of the consumer, why else would they be releasing TV series on so many discs for a given release? With so much room a season should fit 8 or more episodes on just one disc, plus extras. It's also annoying that standard releases have more bonus materials on some release than the Blu edition. It's nice to have Hi-def DVDs but not until they get their act together - as of now Blu is a Beta test zone with each player needing attention and some never able to deliver the glory of the format.
For those same reasons, the matter of the HDMI isn't an issue for the Anthem. All I can say is that the Anthem with my Axiom amp sings like nothing I had previous. Not to mention the Oppo with the Anthem on 52" Sony Bravia - it fools most who enter my home into saying, "I didn't know that was on Blu-ray". They are alway shocked to find out it's just standard DVD.

Will the upcoming Sony 550 let you set bass management in the player? Or the new panasonic? Or even any players that will convert DD+ into DTS like the HD DVD players (including my Xbox) do? Because I could live with that for a while until saving up enough for a super awexome reciever (or Emotiva separates).

I currently use the Outlaw Audio 990 pre/pro and 7500 5 channel amp and absolutely love it. The Outlaws announced yesterday that the 990's replacement will be ready for shipment late fall early winter. The new pre/pro will include HDMI v.1.3 and a new surround processor that is based on dual Texas Instruments DSP chips. The price point is expected to be around $1,400. I am definitely planning to get in line for this!

Well, I finally got the 3808CI and it is awesome. Thanks for all the input.

I just discovered the 3808 has true phono inputs! It sounds much better than using my old preamp. Now if I only had more than 5 records!

For what it's worth, I'd go with the EMOTIVA seperates. I have a normal living room, with all the usual acoustic "challenges". The Emotiva seperates are amazing. Everyone who comes over is very impressed with the tone, clarity and pressence of the sound in the room. I believe their new line is comming out soon. For the price,the quality you get is ridiculous.

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Axiom M60's,VP150,EP350,QS8's,Emotiva MMC1,IPS1,Denon 3930CI,Furman Elite 15, Bluejean Cables!! (God I love my system!!!)

For what it's worth, I'd go with the EMOTIVA seperates. I have a normal living room, with all the usual acoustic "challenges". The Emotiva seperates are amazing. Everyone who comes over is very impressed with the tone, clarity and pressence of the sound in the room. I believe their new line is comming out soon. For the price,the quality you get is ridiculous.

______________________
Axiom M60's,VP150,EP350,QS8's,Emotiva MMC1,IPS1,Denon 3930CI,Furman Elite 15, Bluejean Cables!! (God I love my system!!!)