Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Hearing Things looking to hear some axioms near desmoines ia

Yep we kept waiting for the Fox to show up, but after 5 hrs it was clear she wasn't going to make it. Heck, Wid could have even stopped over, I have the extra bedroom downstairs...

We had a great time. I'm glad I finally got to spend some more time with Nick, what a great guy. I am anxious to check out his setup some day.

Chris was also a great person and I think he enjoyed the visit. I'm probably not the best when it comes to knowing what to provide during a demo, but I think it went well.

Nick's demo DVD clips of movies helped a lot as they were provided with menus of categories; LFE, Surround, Explosions, etc. I need to make/purchase something similar, really cool.

On a couple of examples, Chris and Nick asked me if I was sure the Sub channel was shut off, and it was. This tells you how well the 80's do in the lowwww category. Of course, they will not replace a sub for subsonic lows, but I'm betting there are some subs on the market they could beat.

One thing that came out of the demo that I am pondering is my sub dB levels. Currenly, I have all my subs set to match the SPL dB level of 78dB's like my speakers, from the primary seated position. When they are all turned on, the combined SPL is around 84-5dB's. I know Jakeman recommends setting them up individually, about 5dB's lower than the others, then when combined they will come up to about the other speakers. I tried this for awhile, but following Ian's video I am now leaving them all matched to the speakers, which brings them up higer overall, but in the bass that we hear it is no represented on the Radio Shack meter below 50 hz.

To me they sound good. However, there were a couple of occasions where I felt Chris and Nick thought they weren't explosive enough for their taste. I know everyone has different taste, and many run their subs wayyy to hot and don't follow THX standards.

Chris has a 15" sub currently (I think Epic?) and he commented a few times that he should have been blown out of my room with 3 12" subs, compared to what he gets at home. I don't know what this tells me, possible he does not follow traditional sub calibration techniques, not sure. I thought the bass was pretty intense at time I could feel the hairs on my legs stand up.

I'm anxious to see what Nick's response is on this issue. I guess I don't have much experience listening to other people's sub setups, so this is all I know.

All in all, it went very well and it would be great if Chris becomes an Axiom member. If not that is ok as well. He has a difficult decision to make as he is going back/forth between the Rocket 850's, Axiom M80's, and Paradigm Studio 70's.

Thanks Chris and Nick.

Very nice, Randy!

As for the sub issue, I don't know. It may just be a matter of taste. I used to have my sub(s) cranked up more than normal for movies, but now I kinda prefer the subtlety. It'd be interesting to hear some other people's set ups--none of my friends are audio/video geeks, so I have no other frame of reference.

Now you tell me

I too keep my subs at or around the same as the rest of the system.

Randy, I would say that your system is much more "tuned" than mine, and offer a superior sound quality. Don't worry about the bass. Chris and I both seem to be bass junkies, although a little different taste in music. :-) I like my bass a little "hot" but not much more than what you had. With your 3 subs, it was the "smoothest" bass I think that I've ever heard, and I know that you barely tapped into the EP600 for volume.

I also don't have any bass management or much sound treatment in my room as I said yesterday. I am waiting (still) for the funds for the custom theater seating with a 2nd subwoofer and once that is in, I can work on tuning the room. For me right now, in order to get a real sense of an explosion through all seats, I need it a bit louder, but again, not a lot. Also, when I put in my 6 bass shakers in the seats, I can let them to the slight "rumble" in the seats and let the sub provide the smooth bass and move the air and not need to move the seats.

I put in the same demo DVD you talked about above and listened to what it sounded like here, and I dialed down my sub just a bit actually from where it was before, and adjusted the crossover a hair.

You definitely have an awesome sounding system Randy. I've also already got my wife convinced that sound treatments will be a worthwhile addition.

Another thing that I learned (probably overlooked here) was flipping my VP150 upside down to get a little upward angle on it. That helped enough that my wife noticed better vocals last night in a movie.

I just loved the chance to meet and talk about this stuff in person. I learned a lot of tips and tricks, plus had the chance to experience them first hand.

As for the demo DVDs, I don't have a problem duplicating any of the disks since none of them are commercially made. Just let me know. If I knew a place that could host about 25 single layer DVD images online, they could be made available for everyone to download.

Randy, just from your description I'd guess that you have your sub levels about how I want it. I still follow the old standard(not expressed as often these days, it seems)that the sub shouldn't be heard as a separate source and that the impression should be that it isn't working but that the speakers are putting out more bass. Listening to setups of friends and colleagues I often hear the sub as being far too "hot", and point this out, but the usual response is that they want to hear what they spent all that money on.

I can definitely understand that mindset, but I was quite content after testing its capabilites during my first week of ownership -- and the occasional movie. Now I keep it at a level that makes my M22s sound thrice their normal size.

I still maintain that my value to cost ratio is nearly infinite where the EP500 is concerned.

Peter, your evaluation is, if anything, understated.

John, I agree with you. I like it a hair "hot" but try to make it seem like an extension of the main speakers. I was just very impressed with how good the M80 fronts sounded without the subs on and them set to "large" for the bass extension. So when I say that it wasn't a HUGE difference, that is OK because I wouldn't want it to be a huge difference. Like I said, I would rather have my system sound like Randy's than what it does now. I've got the hardware, I just need to tweaks and treatments.

I'm sure those 60's pump out some potent bass Nick, at least the ones I used to own did. As for the treatments, I know they help according to my graphs, but not sure if our ears can tell.

I only have the front two corners treated with bass traps, and for proper treatment you need the rear corners, as well as floor/wall and ceiling/wall corners treated as well. This can add up the cost. The reflection zone panels I have on the walls are more for say 200hz and above, which helps with the midrange/tweeters sound, so the sound is not as skewed.

If I was to do it all over again, I think I would have made a more dedicated HT room isolated from the rest of the recroom. It would have walls all the way around, more rectangular. This way I would have sub wall outlets on all walls so I could practice Dr Toole's white paper techniques of having subs center located. It is just to difficult for me now as running coax around this room as proved to be difficult.

I'm waiting for someone to come out with a good wireless solution transmitter that will handle the full frequency range for subs. I don't believe the Buttkicker or AudioEngineUSA transmitters go that low. I would think it would not be that hard since the sub freq's are easy.

You want to see a nightmare room, check out mine. Here is one of the first glimpses of the V3.0 home theater that nobody here has seen...

I took an old "estimated" floor plan of the basement, and slapped in some quick equipment and added the closet. The dimensions aren't exactly right, but you get the idea... The sub really doesn't fit anywhere else in that room. It is still a TON nicer than when it was out in the open basement, but I need to tame the room something fierce!

The blue area is the approximate drawing of the custom seating. The grey area between the blue seating and the wall is for an 8 inch drink/snack shelf which also doubles as a way to get the seating just a little more away from the back wall.