Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo receiver and speakers

Wow, my first forum. I'm old school I admit it- gray hair and all. I'm installing my new entertainment center very soon and want to replace my speakers and receiver. I mostly play my old vinyl and just some CD's. I like the specs on the M22 v2 bookshelf speakers (they fit in the ent. center just right and am lookin for a receiver that will work well with the M22 v2's and will be good for the vinyl and allow me to switch over to surround for movies. How about some input? bobby O

Welcome to the forum Bobby O. Pick a reciever based on the features you want and the connectivity you require HDMI, component, etc.

Good advice DG

I would highly doubt that you would notice much difference between any of the avr manufacturers mentioned on these boards, so as DG said just pick the one that has the price and features that you want and remember the M22s are quite efficient so high wattage is not required, anything near or around 100W/ch is usually sufficient for most listening levels.

Bobby, welcome. As the previous replies indicated, modern well-designed HT receivers power the M22s well. Choose on the basis of features and price. One feature that would be of particular importance to you, since you play LPs, is a phono input which properly amplifies the very low voltages from the cartridge. Many receivers no longer include a phono input, and although separate plug-in phono pre-amplifiers are available, it's convenient to have one built-in. One of the receivers that you might consider with a phono input and which is an excellent buy overall is the Onkyo 705 factory refurb which is available(if you're in the U.S.)from Accessories4less for about $480.

Thanks for the replies any and all input is so helpful. I will be choosing equipment soon.

Welcome Bobby. Stick around and we'll turn you into a pro in no time. We'll even throw in a few white hairs for free.

A pro in no time? By us? Remember which forum this is. Oh wait, he will be a pro at threadjacking in no time.

That's really what these forums are all about, don't you think?

Oh, hey, 9800. Took me long enough.

Only a true online pro can skillfully threadjack.

Anyone with, oh, about 1000 posts can pretty much be called a pro at it by then.

Yet, a mere padewan when compared to the Jedi Master with 9800 posts.

If Ken's a Jedi master, does that make me the Force?

Did you say Farce?

Wait, I'm not a Jedi master. I don't subscribe to hokey religions and ancient weapons.

No, you just like tall hairy sidekicks.

Who knew Ken was so kinky.

It's 'cause I can't understand his complaining.

He does like to brag in PM about how much he uses you.

well played, sir miss.

I think this is a good thread for a first post. Howdy. The audiophile in me is fighting to get a word in edgewise.

This is for anyone who wants to keep going into the world of musical romance, which is my big affliction. I deeply love good music and hope to have some of my own soon. Let me say that electronics and cabling matter. If you want a good clean sound, Denon seems to be the defacto go-to company for good hi-fi/HT. Along with them, I'd add Onkyo, Yamaha, Pioneer, Technics, Nakamichi (hifi), Marantz and especially Harmon Kardon.

But any studio hound will tell you that electronics matter, and you get what you pay for. Pioneer Elite, NAD, Cambridge Audio, Nakamichi (the real stuff), B%K, ARCAM, Rotel... there's a whole world of "mid-fi" and high end gear out there that will open up anything you plug into it, and your music will come even more alive. And if money is no object and you can afford Pass Labs, Krell or Mark Levinson... well, would you adopt me?

And don't neglect cable. I'm not talking about Monster, which is a rip-off for anything less than $100, and then I'd still steer clear of it. Get Rocketfish cable for good budget stuff. Look into the Impact Acoustics SonicWaves I think it is. They have silver coated copper interconnects (between units like amp to CD) which is killer. So is Acoustic Research's Master Series, which compares to cable costing well over $100 a unit at a fraction of the cost. Other budget choices are the offerings at Parts Express, Outlaw or at Better Cable. Others which will ending up costing you but worth almost every penny are Audioquest (a fave of mine), Tara Labs, Kimber Kable, Cardas... there are dozens out there, but these guys do rock very well on any system, budget or high end. In fact, high quality cables are the cheapest and yet very effective upgrade to your music system.

I used to be a cable skeptic until the guys at a local audiophile place (Audioport in Overland Park KS for the curious) loaned me well over $1,000 worth of cable over a weekend! I'd been there enough they knew a sucker - uhh, potential customer when they saw one, and they were right. MAN, were they right! I'd bought some cheap Audioquest cable from them and was amazed just with that. But with the expensive stuff, up to $200 for interconnects and speaker cable, I was dumbfounded. I had an Arcam Delta 290 integrated amp with a Mission CD player and TDL Monitor Two speakers. A friend of mine listened to a CD with me when we got it all hooked up, which was quite an adventure, and we looked at each other while it was playing. It was a well recorded video game CD which we started with just for grins, but we were both suure there had to be a hidden remix track we'd stumbled across. My system was superb as it was, but we were hearing things that were still buried in the mix, even with my "medium end" electronics and studio monitor speakers previously. We played more, and more, until well after midnight, and each CD we played was a revelation. We were SO stunned at what we were hearing that we decided to get a few hours naptime in, and start all over again the next morning. And we played stuff until well into the next night!

In fact, the experience was so compelling that when I had to return the cables that tuesday, I was so disappointed, I left my stereo unhooked for days. All I did was mope and poke around online for cable deals which I couldn't afford. A relative had pity on me, astounded that my stereo was all undone for days, that he loaned me the money for a set of those pricey Audioquest interconnects and speaker cables. It ended up costing me almost $400, but back then it was money well spent. Today, the bargains are out there so you don't have to go expensive if you don't want to. I think the final tweaks are to get a line conditioner, NOT a simple filter strip, as it insures you get clean power, and in some cases you'd be surprised. Hum and hiss can completely disappear, and the music can open up even more.

I can't harp enough that whatever you have, get some Cables to Go or Acoustic Research Master Series cables, if just a pair of them to run to your CD and DVD/Blu-Ray player, as well as speakers. Or Rocketfish for your Playstation 3. Or heck, Audioquest if you feel like going for the lofty high end.

I don't have a set of Axioms yet, though I shot off a PM to a few of the auditioners here. Whether I go for a pair of M22s with a sub, or the M60s - or both! - I'm really looking forward to the day I get a pair hooked up to this Rotel.

I'm glad you've found your audio nirvana, but I remain extremely skeptical of such claims, even though I'm sure they are quite real to those who experience them in uncontrolled circumstances. I'm sure I'd probably believe I heard a difference as well. If I did hear a difference, I'd want to be sure that difference was actually real and not just perceived. The only way to determine that with any sort of certainty is through blind tests -- in which you pit cable A against cable B without knowing which is playing.

I have a feeling the night and day difference those expensive interconnects seem to create would be significantly diminished under those circumstances (as they have many a time before).

Well, there's a caveat to this. In my case, I'm a studio guy who's spent years analyzing sound by ear for everything from producing songs to picking apart songs by ear to arrange them for others. My relative is a 20 something who just has a visceral gut level reaction to a stereo, like most pople, and everyone can tell whether a stereo sounds good, bad, or incredible. My stereo was already incredible, and had become an alternative to gaming night, when the guys would bring over their CDs for a night of "mini-concerts." We were all fairly familiar with the sound of my ARCAM Delta 290, Mission CD player and TDL Monitor 2s with my budget Audioquest cable. It was outstanding as it was, enough that I gained a rep as "the guy with the stereo you HAVE to hear." And while it didn't gain me any lady friends, sadly, it made me very popular with the guys.

Also, I'd already gone through this experience with Monster Cable, which was disappointing. I couldn't believe people would spend $50 on that stuff. The speaker wire was decent, but like everyone else's 14 or so gauge cable. The Audioquest got my attention though. And then came the day of the $1000 loaners.

The best test, as it is with the Axiom home trial, is to use something with the system you're familiar with. And mine was a road well traveled. I'd listened to a LOT of music on cheap cable, and a lot MORE on the more involving budget Audioquest. And then with the expensive stuff... it's hard to get around putting on a CD we'd both listened to several times and then looking at each other, wondering if there was a hidden remix track we'd stumbled across. Nothing was different but the cable. What was resolving things more accurately was the cable. What made the soundstage larger was the cable.

No one will make you spend money on new wires. But when some of you guys are spending way more than $2000 on a set of Axioms - which I'm getting close with the piano gloss Redwood M60s I want - spending $15 for 3 ft Dayton interconnects and $50 for a 10 ft pair of Dayton speaker cables from Parts Express is almost like pizza money. I doubt you could accuse Outlaw of making or having their own cables made just for the heck of it. I recommend their stuff too.

Studios and television stations use this high definition cable, much of it either Mogami or Cardas, not because it's shielded better, but because it sounds better. Heck, for $65 to link up a CD/DVD/Blu-Ray player and pair of front channel speakers with Daytons, the cost of a Playstation video game, it's not much just to give it a taste.

Don't forget to share Wid

Steve, welcome. These reports of sound differences sometimes described in terms such as "huge", "night-and-day", etc., are common but lack factual support. Hopefully we learn that you(meaning everyone)simply can't "Just trust your ears" when other factors exist which can affect your judgment. A properly controlled blind listening test is the only way to control for these factors, and previous claims relating to wires, electronics, etc., collapse when put to the test.

Seems to me there is still a MILLION dollar challange for anyone that can prove the difference between speaker wire costing thousands and the cheapest monster cable. Noone has taken the offer in what now, over a year. Hmmmm

As someone once told me, copper is copper, God only made one kind. The electrons can't tell the difference. As long as your using the proper AWG for the distance and speaker rating you will not be able to tell a difference in true blind A/B tests. If your aware of what is hooked up, your brain will tell you your listening to $1,000 copper wire.

God didn't make copper. Anything that conducts electricity is the work of Satan.

Or Count Duku.

I laughed when I heard his name in the movie.

Hello synthguy

I'm sure you are about to receive another warm axiom forum welcome to your post about cabling.

I agree. I found that Tara Labs component interconnects improved the sound of my DVD Audio and SACD music.

I use some strange Mapleshade Clearview Double Golden Helix Plus speaker cables for my 2 channel tube stereo system. Love the sound of that system.

As to receivers, if you are willing to go against the flow, I'd try a Sony TA E9000ES processor (with Version 2.10 software upgrade) if you do not need SACD or DVD Audio. I use one with an Anthem PVA5 5 channel amp and this office system gives up little or nothing to my big 7.1 system with an Integra DTC 9.4 processor, 3 Yamaha M80 2-channel amps and an Integra M504 (Huge VU meters) for the center channel.

I laughed when I realized he was a dentist.

Once bitten, twice bitter?

Eh, I'm used to it. It'll be interesting to see how welcome I am now that I told everyone that Axiom sounds like crap without a listen. At least I'm sure that's what a few are thinking.

And hey, I'm really aching to get an audition from anyone with the M22s, M60s and even M80s in the Kansas City area, but no one returned my PMs yet.

I was going to get Tara Labs until I struck a deal on the Audioquest. But I have to say the Mapleshade stuff intrigues me. I think I'll have to grab some of that speaker cable, might even try that strange ribbon interconnect out.


Really... I've heard a number of people dissatisfied with the Sony ES stuff... I'll have to look into this if I decide to go HT at some point. But right now, my posse isn't impressed with surround sound anything and are sticking with pure stereo. A good spacious stereo system is going to sound better than any HT setup. And after listening to some EXTREMELY expensive HT rigs, I'm talking upwards of $15,000, I'm still not impressed. The one area HT would make a diff is with suspense and horror flicks, where creepy sounds can be lurking behind your couch. But that's not my cup 'o tea. My Rotel/TDL Monitor Twos really fill the room as it is, though hopefully not too long from now, I can give some M60s a spin.

Hey 2x6, I have some vacuum tube porn for you.

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/09/18/video-of-a-guy-who-m.html

It's a video of a guy who makes his own vacuum tubes. I found it fascinating.

That was pretty impressive to watch...

Thanks for the link, Peter. That was fascinating.

A lost art, very impressive, but I think it would have had a warmer feeling to it while watching it on an old tube TV.

Not me. I have too many memories of tube TVs simply failing to work.

Don't hold it against your parents for making you sit on top of the piano holding the rabbit ears just so.

My Dad had to go on the roof to turn the antenna. Living in Comer, GA, it was this way for Atlanta, that way for Greenville SC/Asheville NC.

We thought it was a great day when we got this power antenna that rotated itself with a knob on top of the TV.