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#221457 - 09/18/08 01:09 PM Re: Where should I improve? [Re: terzaghi]
Jappy Offline

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 49
Loc: "Near" Quebec City, Canada
OK, so you dont see any problem with the VP-100 and the QS4s? I will be sitting very close to the QS4s so loudness should not be a problem, but my experience with center speaker is very limited.

Also, for music, I like mostly rock (like Led Zepplin). A am a musician myself (bass player) so I do understand the necessity of a good sub! Although, I'm looking more for quality and definition (i HAVE to be able to hear the bassline very clearly in a song with this setup) more than loudness...
My new system: M80s, VP-150, EP-350 and QS8s, Denon AVR-889, Samsung BD-P1500 and XBox360

#221460 - 09/18/08 01:21 PM Re: Where should I improve? [Re: Jappy]
terzaghi Offline

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 4870
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Def. go with a biggest baddest sub that you can possibly afford.

I would highly reccomend you buy through the factory outlet. I had a near perfect set of speakers from the FO. The only blemish I found was one scratch on the back of my ep500.

#221461 - 09/18/08 01:23 PM Re: Where should I improve? [Re: Jappy]
marsilians Offline

Registered: 12/20/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Markham, Canada

Typically there is not much LFE with rock music. Jazz, Classical instrumental, Rap, Hip/Hop etc., do need greater support. Given the price of EP350, I would look at other good offerings as well such as SVS, HSU, Elemental Designs although the looks may not be that great compared to the Axiom. This would still leave you with upgrading to VP 150 since I personally find vocals through the center channel to be the weakest link in my listening experience. Also I would just stay with the QS4s as you wont see a bigger benefit with the surround experience than the previous options.

#221462 - 09/18/08 01:24 PM Re: Where should I improve? [Re: marsilians]
terzaghi Offline

Registered: 04/04/07
Posts: 4870
Loc: Tulsa, Oklahoma
mars, what center channel do you have?

#221479 - 09/18/08 02:20 PM Re: Where should I improve? [Re: marsilians]
fredk Offline

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7786
Loc: Canada
There are a number of very good subs on the market now make sure you take all the costs into account. When I looked into it, the only subs that didn't have a significant shipping/duties premium were those from SVS (they have a Canadian dealer). Keep in mind the savings from the HT discount and outlet stock.

Though this will vary depending on the room, I have recently measured and found that the EP350 reaches down to 22Hz in mine.

If you listen to music with pipe organ or synth in it a lot and/or watch a lot of movies, you may want something that reaches a little lower.

Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

#221480 - 09/18/08 02:21 PM Re: Where should I improve? [Re: Jappy]
PeterChenoweth Offline

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
I fall in line with the others. Spend the money on a good sub. I don't care if you just listen to classical music, a good sub brings a surprising amount of realism to any music. I also believe that running your mains in a phantom center mode won't be nearly as good as having a real center. I've tried it, it's not the same. But IMHO it would be better to spend the money on mains, sub, surrounds now and 'make due' with a phantom center for a while. Save up for a few months and buy a center when you can. You'll have a better system in the end.

I owned a cheap Kenwood sub for many years. It was what I could afford at the time. I thought it was good, because movie explosions and such certainly had a lot of kick & impact to them. But I always felt I was missing something with music. Even with my M22's, music was slightly lacking. Just never sounded all that great. Good, not great. Then I upgraded to my SVS sub, and it changed everything. It completely transformed the music experience and brought back what was missing. Music sounded far more real to me. You'd be surprised what clean & accurate bass can do for music. And movie LFE effects rattle the neighbor's house. I'm sure the EP175 would be far superior to my old Kenwood one, but the EP350 is commonly regarded around here as being a significantly better sub.

I know we're an Axiom forum here, so I'll stay mostly in the party line and say you ought to buy the EP350. But since money is an issue, HSU & SVS's make some darn good subs too at slightly lower price points. Maybe something to check out.

My system consisted of M22's + VP150 + SVS sub for several years, and I was very happy with the setup. I would bet that you'd be happier with an M22+EP350 setup than an M60+EP175. The m22's are very good speakers. The only drawback is that they require stands of some sort. The Axiom stands are good, but when you factor in their price, the M60's aren't that much more expensive. Food for thought, anyway.

And if you're looking to save a buck, definitely consider the outlet. Many of us have purchased stuff from there, and with very few exceptions, all have been happy (based on chatter here). It is rare that anyone can even tell that they're from the outlet, let alone actually having a problem. My QS8's were from the outlet, and I couldn't find anything wrong with them. They are as perfect as my non-outlet Axiom speakers.

And don't forget that Axiom does do a 5% 'Home Theater' discount when you order more than 5 things at once.

Good luck!

M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

#221501 - 09/18/08 05:23 PM Re: Where should I improve? [Re: PeterChenoweth]
thefwam Offline

Registered: 03/04/08
Posts: 229
Loc: Utah, USA
I will echo what many have said. I have M22s paired with an Outlaw LFM-1 EX sub, which many compare to the HSU subs (apparently they were designed by the same person, Dr. Hsu). I've been incredibly happy with it. Until then i was not as in love with my speakers, they just didn't have the "oomph" i imagined. They are incredibly accurate, just too small to make any impact. The difference a great sub makes is night and day though. I would agree to go with the 350 or possibly investigate the other brands, when I got my Outlaw they were having a free shipping promotion, so I got my sub for $600 even, which is a harder deal to beat out the ep350 when you have to pay $70 shipping on top of that.

also +1 for factory outlet, i can't find a THING on any of the pieces i ordered

#221545 - 09/19/08 10:24 AM Re: Where should I improve? [Re: thefwam]
Jappy Offline

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 49
Loc: "Near" Quebec City, Canada
If I was looking at SVS or HSU, which one would be comparable to the Ep350?
My new system: M80s, VP-150, EP-350 and QS8s, Denon AVR-889, Samsung BD-P1500 and XBox360

#221567 - 09/19/08 01:03 PM Re: Where should I improve? [Re: Jappy]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10415
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
The PB12-nsd from SVS, I am not sure on the direct Hsu competitor, possibly the STF 2 mk3 or the VTF2 mk3. I can vouch for the PB12 though I had one before I bought the PB13-Ultra. The 12 is a very good sub, plays slightly lower than the EP350 and has a slighlty different tone than than any of the Axiom subs, actually Axiom's subs sound slightly different from most subs, very pleasing though. Sonicboomaudio is the Canadian distributor for SVS.


#221583 - 09/19/08 02:10 PM Re: Where should I improve? [Re: jakewash]
ctown Offline

Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 364
Loc: Calgary, AB
Here is an old Craigsub ranking from another forum.

JL Audio Fathom 113: 103 points
Velodyne DD-18: 100 points
ACI Maestro: 97 points
JL Audio Fathom 112: 95 points
Hsu VTF-3 HO + Turbo: 94 points
Hsu VTF-3 HO w/o Turbo: 92 points
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III + Turbo: 92 points
Hsu VTF-3 Mark III w/o Turbo: 91 points
SVS PB12-Ultra: 90 points
Axiom EP-500: 90 points
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III + Turbo: 88 points
SVS PB12-Plus/2: 87 points
SVS PB12-NSD: 86 points
Hsu VTF-2 Mark III w/o Turbo: 86 points
Rocket UFW-12: 85 points (provisional)
SVS PB10-NSD: 83 points
Rocket X-Sub: 78 points
Rocket Tyke: 60 points

I got my HSU STF-3 when the canadian distributer was selling them of. At the time I was wavering between that and the PB12-NSD. Both are good subs, especially for the price.

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