Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo Just got back from listening...

I spent the afternoon demo'ing speakers. (No have have no intention of "upgrading" my M60's!) If you recall my brother is moving to LA from Boston. He's put me in charge of getting him an all new system from the ground up. So I took advantage and listened to a ton of stuff today.

B&W 704 ($2200) - Sweet speaker. Very nice clarity and warm sounding. Nice details. BEAUTIFUL wood cabinet. But for $2200 it should be nice, right? Oh...and their cabinets are shaped a bit like Axioms...wider at front than in the back. Not quite as extreme as Axioms. Wonder where they got that idea. ???

B&W 705 ($1500) - Another nice speaker. Attains surprising depth (and a nice clean bass) for a smallish bookshelf speaker. Compared to the 704's though, it sounded a bit closed in, and the soundstage wasn't as full.

Theil 1.6 - ($2200) Wow...I'd never heard a pair of Theil's before. These sounded very nice! Incredible separation. Depending on your tastes, they are a good looking speaker as well. Unlike most speakers, they slope backward from bottom to top, and are tapered from bottom to top...wider at the base.

NHT ST4 - ($1000) Not at the level of the B&W's but again, not a bad little speaker. They have 8" side firing woofers. This is the first speaker I've heard with built in "subs", that didn't sound like complete poo. Again, very nicely built, with a really nice looking high gloss black finish.

Vienna Acoustics Bach - ($1500) - These sounded nice as well. I listened to these paired with a $3000 Rel subwoofer, so I'm sure that helped. Playing "Dead Can Dance" they sounded quite amazing, though when I played Prince's "1+1+1=3" the bass got a bit muddy. Not sure if it was the sub or the speakers, but the bass lost a lot of clarity on that disc. Once again, BEAUTIFUL finish.

One thing I've consistantly noticed with all the speakers I've looked at...NICE finishes. REAL wood. Exactly how much more would it cost to have a pair of Axioms with a real wood finish? I LOVE the sound of my Axiom's, but I've always been disapointed that they're not real wood. Those new B&W 704's were MIGHTY impressive looking.

I listened to a new NAD receiver/DVD player unit today as well. The NAD L70. It's an "all-in-one" Receiver/DVD player. I was listening to the Prince track "1+1+1=3" again. I switched from listening to a Rotel 1055 reciver and 1070 cd player to the NAD. Bleck! The NAD sounded thin, and had MUCH more background hiss. Bleck, bleck, bleck...Even compared to the Denon AVR-1804 and the Denon 1600 DVD player, the NAD just didn't stand up. Sorry NAD, but this new L70 doesn't seem like a winner.

Finally I looked at some TV's. (and FP's). I'm still not sold on the plasma technology. From a distance they look pretty good, but if you're too close at all, you get some serious pixelation. Even with dvd's...I dunno. I watched some DLP tv's and thought they looked more natural.

I then saw an InFocus 5700. 93" screen...sweet. The blacks weren't as nice on the rear projection DLP or the plasma, but it's hard to deny that 93" is indeed impressive.

Hey spiff

If I were to replace my Axiom made speakers it would probably be with Thiels, de Cappos or JM Labs Cobalts. The Thiels are laid back so that the high frequencies arrive at the listener at the same time as the mids and lows - they are time corrected.

Your report about the NAD receiver with DVD on board sort of confirms my opinion of most receivers, jacks of all trades, masters of none.

I'm curious what kind of sources you auditioned with the Vienna Acoustics Bach speakers, and the B&W 704s.

The Vienna's were played through a Denon DVD-2900 player, and powered by a B&K amp. (Not sure of the amp model...it was on "sale" for $3900)

I heard the B&W's through an assortment of equipment. Rotel 1055 receiver and 1070 cd player. Denon 1804 receiver and 1600 player. Linn integrated amp and cd player (sorry don't know the models). And finally the NAD all in one. (The Linn sounded the best...then the Rotel, then Denon, then NAD)

If you guys like Theils you should listen to the Maggies. ... but don't listen to me...last time I mentioned Theils someone said they were bright and was not as good as Axioms.

I'll second the suggestion to listen to Maggies. Great speakers that disappear. You can play them really loud and still have nice clean sound.

hey, if your brother wants to come see & listen, i'm in pembroke; 'bout 30 to 40 minutes south of boston.
dan

He's probably going to get Axioms as well. He's heard my setup and really liked it. All the listening I did yesterday was mostly just for fun. I just used him as an excuse.

just thought i would offer.
dan

Appreciate the offer.

Just curious, but where did you go here in LA? I had a funny experience at Ahead Stereo on Saturday afternoon while auditioning some preamps. They were highly recommending the Rotel unit you have, and it did sound incredible, though at a $1500 price tag, I think I could do much better Audiogon or Ebay. But I didn't say that to them. However I got a little miffed at the audio snobbery from the salesman when I mentioned that I love my set of Axioms and he turned his nose up and said, "Well, we've got nothing to do with their stuff." I almost walked out, actually, and not just because the B&W speakers we were listening to didn't sound as good as my M-60's. And that was with a much better set of electronics hooked up, too. Idiot. You may want to be prepared to experience this if you go in there and mention you've got Axioms.

But if you've not been to LA Stereo on Western (one of the best shops EVER!), take a few hours and your favorite music to check out their upstairs setups. All high end Krell, Mark Levinson, Wilson, Martin-Logan gear. You won't be disappointed and the owner is always willing to give anyone a listen. He seems to enjoy it just as much as his potential customers do.

I stopped in at Sound Factor, Magnolia, and AV City. All within 2 blocks of eachother on Wilshire Blvd. in Santa Monica. (Damn, it's nice living in LA)

Magnolia is brand new. It's like a high end Good Guys. Very corporate, but really well layed out, with all the top stuff. Sound Factor is a little place. Depends on who helps you what the "snob" factore will be. I was helped by a younger asian guy. He was very helpful, and not a snob at all. I did indeed mention my Axioms, but they didn't really say anything good or bad. Finally I stopped by AV City. Again, they were very helpful. Not snobs at all.

Sound Factor and AV City are going to let me bring my M60's into their stores and A/B them against their products. When my brother is ready to buy, I'm taking them up on their offer. I'd really like to know how the M60's will stack up against the B&W 704's, NHT ST4's, and Theil CS1.6's. I'm sure in the end, my brother is going to end up with one of those speakers. (Probably the M60's because they are such a great value, or the NHT's because he'll like their finish better, and they're still a decent value.)

So you're gonna toss one M60 in your trunk and the other in the back seat, then?

My back seats fold down. I can lay both in the trunk, and they'll fit. (Love my A4!)

Make sure you watch them hook the Axioms up to assure they connect them in phase, otherwise, they'll sound like crap.

Heh - test them this week - we're all dieing to know how they stack up!

I need to wait for my brother to be here. I may be able to do it the weekend of Nov 7th. He'll be busy looking for an apartment, but we may be able to squeeze a couple hours of "fun" time in.

Spiff, if you want a "real" wood finish on your M60s (we are talking about veneers here) why not take it to someone who does custom woodworking or cabinetry? You may need them to also make some new grills, but I'm sure that wouldn't be a problem either. I wonder how much that might cost?

I just assumed that would cost a fortune and perhaps change the sound of the speaker. Am I wrong?

As long as the internal and external dimensions stay the same, it should not change the sound of the speaker.

I am actually toying with the idea of getting my speakers refinished.

I think I'll just keep my Axioms as is.

I just ordered some M2i's and eventually plan on making some new cabinets for them myself as I have all the necessary tools and experience.

Spiffnme,

FYI, was at the bookstore earlier today and What Hi-Fi pretty much agrees with what you have to say about the NAD L70.

Always nice to have one's opinions backed up by pros.

In reply to:

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As long as the internal and external dimensions stay the same, it should not change the sound of the speaker.

I am actually toying with the idea of getting my speakers refinished.

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Actually it can change the sound of the speakers; nothing too dramatic of course. MDF, unlike most other speaker woods breathes a tiny bit. The type of finish can actually alter this and thus alter how it resonates and howthe overall balance will be; but I highly doubt it will be significant. It will make a difference form unfinished to finished wood, however, I'd think.