Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo advice for a n00b please

Hi all,

I am interested in picking up some axiom speakers (thinking a bookshelf pair)

I have a HK AVR-430 (which i hear should be able to power anything and also I hear has a nice warm sound to complement the 'brighter' axioms


I am interested in either the m22 pair or the M2 pair.

eventually (soonish) I hope to add a HSU research VTF-1 (from what i hear and read, its a good value, pairs well with axioms, and will work well for larger rooms down the road) and eventually after that, perhaps the rest of a 5.1 setup.

so my question is this: I move a lot (once every 6 mo - 1 yr) and I usually live in a 1 br apartment - my room sizes are fairly small as a result, and I am sometimes a upstairs and sometimes downstairs. Therefore I am looking for a relatively portable setup (no floor standing speakers) and speakers that are relatively forgiving regarding placement.

From what I see, the advantage of the M22 pair is that I wont need to upgrade for a lot longer and will be able to use them as my mains later on as I am able to afford more speakers. (or so i am thinking right now - advice?)

the m2 pair would allow me to afford a subwoofer sooner. However, I am concerned that it may not be nearly enough for down-the-road and I want whatever I buy now to last for more than a decade. (and be good enough to be in a house entertainment center)

I'd really like some advice. Since I'll be moving pretty often, I can see how the M2 would be better for my current needs. However, I also like what I read about the precision of the M22. (I listen to Etymotic headphones, so I like the highly-detailed flat response sound)

thanks!
-schizm42

Get the M22s and save yourself the anguish. Even if it means buying a sub later, do it. Many of us have bought our system in increments. Don't settle. Always try to get what you want the first time.

I second that. Bright.........................hmmmmmm thems nasty words around these parts

Schizm -

What you hear about the Axioms being bright is fortunately not true. I haven't heard every speaker in the lineup, but I have heard the 60s/80s and M3s, and none of them are at all bright.

Of course you might think we're all biased here being Axiom owners, but at the very least we're all speaking from experience versus the other internet forums where most people don't feel that the same requirement (first-hand experience) applies before critiquing a speaker.

As far as the HK, yes, it will power them fine. I think the M22 is your best bet as well if you're not adding a sub immediately.

Jason

Schiz, welcome. The first point is that the HK isn't "warm"; it has a flat response and doesn't add a sonic coloration. Likewise, the Axioms aren't "bright" and the resulting sound won't be unless the program material has that character. Wherever you heard that, it was simply a repetition of audio mythologies which have no factual support.

In a relatively small room the M22s should serve you very well on most material even when used without a sub at first. The effect of room reinforcement in my room with the M22s was to give quite strong response down to about 50Hz and much weaker, but still usable, response at 40Hz. This is satisfactory for most types of music(pipe organ excluded), although for best results with the LFE that occasionally is present during movies the addition of a sub will be highly desirable.

Thanks so much for the help!

hehe looks like i touched a nerve by saying 'bright' =P

my favorite headphones are etmotic research - famous for being incredibly detailed & flat, but also complained about for being 'bright' so that reputation (deserved or not) actually drew me to the brand.

I think I'll go with the M22s in that case. I will need to save up a little more for them, but that sounds like a plan.

Do any of you have any recommendations for new vs used? ebay vs other places? factory refurb vs new?

Also, Do any of you have suggestions on the HSU VTF-1 and how it pairs with the m22? I know it'll be a while before I actually buy it, but I'd like to hear what y'all think.

Also, is there anyone in the phoenix area (ideally near chandler) where I can listen to the m22 before actually taking the plunge?

thanks!

Given forum rules and general etiquette (remember, Axiom owns and provides these forums), I won't speak to the used market, but it is important to note that the factory outlet speakers are not refurbs. Factory outlet speakers are speakers that didn't meet Axiom's quality standards for appearance only, and are not used. Many people have found them to be a good value.

Yes, if you'd like to save a bit, definitely order from the factory outlet. The speakers are brand new, but with a "cosmetic defect" that most owners(including me)have had great difficulty in seeing.

As to the VTF-1, sure it would be excellent with the M22s, but the STF-2 would give you essentially equal performance at a significantly lower cost. It has a fixed enclosure tuning rather than variable, but this is the same as the variable set for maximum extension, which most owners prefer anyway. More finishes(at higher cost)are available for the VTF-1 if that's significant to you.

If you look at the Audition thread under Hearing Things you'll note that Dean(grunt)is in Phoenix with M22s among his several Axiom speakers. You might send him a PM to see what can be arranged.

I have not ever heard M2's, but my M22's are fantastic. You really just can't go wrong with them. They're still reasonably portable (they're not small, though) but have a lot of room presence. 5,8,10 years down the road if/when you move into a bigger place with a big AV room, they may not have the size required for a large room, they'll still be fantastic in a bedroom, den, office, kitchen, etc. Even without a sub, in a smaller room, they're amazing.

And like others have said, don't be afraid to order F/O gear. It's likely that you won't be able to find *any* cosmetic defect in the speakers. The only drawback is the extra couple of week wait.

And yes, you touched a nerve (with some) on the "bright" comment. Folks that don't like Axiom speakers will often accuse them of being too "bright". We've had many, many discussions about this in the past, so it's kind of a touchy subject.

But it really just boils down to personal taste. I've listened to a lot of different speakers over the years. Cheap ones, expensive ones, "good" ones, "bad" ones, etc. They all sound different. Some I liked, some I hated. Some speakers emphasize the midrange and hold back on the highs, and these are sometimes described as "warm" speakers. Other's have a more depressed midrange and exaggerated high range, and these can be described as "bright" or "cold". Still others might be just all bass and nothing else. I've heard examples from every category. The bottom line is that each of us appreciate different qualities in a speaker, just as some people might prefer an apple to a pear, or vice versa.

So if you're used to "warm & fuzzy" sounding speakers, then Axiom's may indeed sound "bright" to you, as they are very accurate and do not color the sound as some speakers do. They are clean and neutral.

Having owned my Axiom speakers for almost 7 years now, I've found myself much more critical of how other speakers sound. I'll be at a friend's house and hear his BrandX speakers and they'll immediately sound too bright, or too bassy, or too warm, or too <whatever> to me. And it's not that all other brands sounded too warm to me now, which would be the case if Axiom's were indeed "bright". I hear just as many that are too "bright" as I do that are too "warm". And that to me says that my brain has been trained to the neutrality of Axiom sound, which is exactly what they're supposed to be.

Love my M22's. Also have the M2's as back surrounds. upgraded from the M3's. ultimately it is always a matter of personal preference.

Gary - are you saying you upgraded from the M3s to the M2s? Or to the 22s from the M3s? (I'm guessing the latter, but just checking as your post makes it look like the other way around)

Jason

I interpreted Gary's post as follows. M2's are used as surrounds. Originally had M3's as his front main speakers and upgraded to the M22's.

Dr. House

Correct. I upgraded my M3's for the M22's and kept the M2's as back surrounds.

Schizm

I have M22s, M2s and M3s. For stand alone use, I prefer the M3s. I've had several HK receivers and have always thought of them as warm as opposed to flat and "analytical."

Although there are many on this board who insist there is no difference in sound quality among "well designed" solid state amps and receivers (DSPs aside), I respectfully disagree.

BTW, if you are thinking about a 2 channel system, why not try the Sonic Impact T-Amp (10 watts per channel). It will set you back about $25 (twenty five). It's a little plastic thing that has wonderful sound quality and will drive a pair of M3s (or M22s or M2s if you go that way) without any problem at reasonable volume levels. You have to supply your own AA batteries or throw another $30 for a good power supply (like a Pyramid 5 amp).

A nice CD player or a nice Oppo 970H which will also play SACD or DVD Audio for about $170 and you may find yourself with enough change left over for a nice used subwoofer, like a HSU or a Velodyne, which can be picked up pretty cheap.

Good luck.

ooh i appreciate all the advice, keep it coming!

I've actually owned the HK430 for a few years now, but thanks for the info on receivers. I've used the 430 along with various hand-me-down speakers over the past few years (including some no-name floor-standers from the 70s that got damages in shipping, a few others, and most recently Bose 901s from the 80s) while they have all been free up until now, I think I'm ready for my own pair.

As far as my music source, since I move a lot all my hard-copy discs are in storage in a different state... however, I have all my music stored digitally on my computer (either lossless or high-bitrate mps) which I connect w/ a toslink to the receiver.

I also watch a lot of Blue-rays on a PS3 (yay netflix)

I've been using high-end headphones for a while now (since the ROI as far as quality sound is much more reasonable when it comes to headphones, and I used to travel a lot)

I wanted to buy the M22 vs the M3 because I eventually want to build a full 5.1 HT system down the road with these as a foundation, and I feel like the M22 having the same woofers as the centers will help in that regard. (Is my thinking flawed, or does it make sense?)

Also, I plan to get a subwoofer fairly soon (relatively, like after a few months depending on a few things coming through - I'm thinking VTF since I watch a lot of movies, but considering I live in apartments - if the STF will work well for movies as well, I'd rather save the $)

And although I've heard a lot of great things about the m3, especially for non-sub use, I feel that by buying and then incrementally upgrading, I'll end up spending more money in the long run.

FYI, Parts Express sells a T-Amp with a Power supply for 69. Link

It sounds like you've got things pretty much figured out schwimz. Let us know your impressions of the M22 when you get them.