 Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Curious if others were as impressed with the new Batman Blu-Ray disk, Dark Knight. As most likely have heard, they used IMAX cameras for many of the shots and the 70mm film is the best footage I have seen on my 720p TV. I thought the sound was equally impressive as the mix was clear and level with realistic db spikes for specific events. I should note, I am not able to run the TrueHD signal due to ED (Equip Dysfunction).  So my question is: Do those of you running even better setups - i.e., 1080p projectors, 7.1 DDTrueHD, etc. - find the film to be the new standard for demos, or is there still a reigning champion?
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 Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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I hope to watch the disc this weekend. From what I remember about seeing it the Imax theater. . .it should be tough to beat. I hope it transfers well to Blu-ray.
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I saw a thread about this at AVS, where they were finding a lot of flaws in the transfer. Different picture qualities throughout the movie, specs on the screen, etc. I haven't watched it yet, but I have a hunch you'd need to pause and use a magnifying lens to discover this stuff.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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I still haven't watched the movie on Blu-ray. I just watched the first little part (what constitutes the prologue on the Batman Begins limited edition). I have a 60" screen, which I used to think was plenty big, but I'm starting to jones for a projector. I would think Baraka would be hard to unseat for picture quality in live-action, though, with Pixar movies being the highest standard, though they cheat by using computers to animate their films. Those bastards!
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Watched it last night on bluray on my 50" 720p lcdrp with dolby truehd. Definitely Very good picture quality and great sound! I had never seen it before and loved the plot and all the neat gadgets like they have in batman begins...
I didn't notice one flaw or spec in the video... maybe those people at AVS forgot to clean their tv?
-David
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Having had the movie for a couple of weeks now and observing the intermittent flip-flop back and forth between the Imax and the 2:35/1 theatrical versions, I just wish they had left the Imax (full-screen 16x9) aspect ratio presentation "permanently" on the screen and dispensed with the black bars. The bigger the screen one has to view this particular movie the more impressive the Imax version is to watch. It seems some at AVS have been taken over by some mysterious mass eye ailment because I have watched the movie a number of times on my 65" RP CRT and have yet to see these "earth moving" flaws they describe.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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But then they would have had to film everything on Imax film (more $$$$) and in most movie theaters that have a constant screen height, that would have presented an actually smaller picture since there would have been "black bars" on the sides of the image (covered by curtains) instead of the black bars seen at the top and bottom of your 16x9 screen.
With the variance between HDTV broadcasts in a 16x9 format (1.78:1 ratio) and many movies being near 2.4:1 ratio, there is no way around the black bars. Bars on the top and bottom of the screen for those of us with 16x9 screens/TVs when watching movies, and bars on the right and left of the screen for those people with 2.4:1 (or similar) screens when watching HDTV broadcasts.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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I know that some of the AVS crowd that was upset about DK were upset about the format swap based on their expensive 2.4:1 projectors/screens. When it kicks to the IMAX images, they have screen size problems. I for one love the IMAX images. I noticed the first change, (from IMAX to film) but after that it was hard to remember that the screen had switched from 16:9 to 2.4:1. [No correction needed, I'm sure that aint the exact ratios, but you get my point!  ] The stunning quality of the IMAX scenes far overshadows any switching "problem", as I found the switching to be almost imperceptible in a dark room. And according to the extras, the BR transfer is actually better than the 35mm transfer used in local theaters. I may have this wrong, but I think they said it was scaled down to fit on 35mm (which is 9 times smaller in terms of content). But BR lets them put the full (or, more full) content for us to see in HD. The physical comparison of the 70mm to 35mm film is suprising. And I don't know what image problems people have found. I'm sure they are there, but the images are staggering - at least on my humble TV. One of the reasons I posted this thread is that I want to know if the 1080p projector crowd has a mild or mixed reaction to the film's quality. If so, I'm less anxious to get a projector because I really enjoyed this film at home and I don't expect much better than IMAX quality in my humble theater any time soon. If they are blown away by it, then I know I want in.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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I haven't seen the film at all, either in theatre, IMAX, or DVD, but are the changes implemented somewhat smoothly, at least? It seems very odd to change aspect ratios in the middle of the film.
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Ken, it was noticeable in the theater, but the images were so good you quickly forgot about it. At least I did.
I don't know how my perception will change with my TV, though.
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yeah.... I only noticed a few transitions between the screen sizes during the movie.
-David
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Even if the IMAX portions look good, mixing formats seem a weird way to release it in its final form... Has anyone seen a movie that has done this before? First time I've heard of it (though I don't watch many IMAX movies at home).
Jason
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Wow, am I so unattentive that I missed all these transitions? I don't recall one! I'll have to pop it in again before I send my netflix copy tomorrow.
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Has anyone seen a movie that has done this before? The Extras section acts of if this is an industry first. The use of IMAX films for action scenes is actually new, according to them. I don't normally care much about the Extras section, but this was real informative as it gets into 70 v. 35mm film, etc. You also have a nice look at Hans Zimmer's score, which is pretty far out there, and is very deep. (In Hz I mean.) Is the switching annoying? I have a 720p DPS RP set. On that set, the format switching was not distracting at all, and I had already been keyed into the issue via the AVR forum. With that in mind, I'd say most should not be offended by it. I promise, on my set, the quality of the images is worth any distraction you might have. I like the IMAX images as you have no black bars - full 16:9. In a dark room, when the next scene switches to black bars for 2.4:1, it just blends in. I think it would be more noticeable on a smaller screen, or in a lit room, but perhaps not. I don't buy many movies, but I put this up there with Gladiator, Saving P Ryan, and The Matrix in terms of demo material that I own. Each has given me a reference point for some aspect of the theater, and Dark Knight surpasses all in every category I can think of - surround, depth, blacks, daylight scenes, crawl test, dialogue clarity, etc. Hell, I sound like I work for WB, but I'm just real impressed - and that's kind rare, hence the thread.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Well that's an awesome review. I might have to add this to my Christmas list then. Thanks Zimm.
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I haven't seen the film at all, either in theatre, IMAX, or DVD ... 5 demerits! Rectify this at once or else your man card is in danger. Wait - let me think of something that will actually threaten you - rectify this post haste or else I'll tell The Boy that Metallica CDs are really tiny Frisbees.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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He already thinks that about all of our DVDs. And the videotapes are sources of ribbons. Sigh.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Just received my copy!  Can't wait to see it after all the posts here! Will have to wait for neighbors to clear out! 
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Wow, am I so unattentive that I missed all these transitions? I don't recall one! Me neither. Did't notice one transition. I just got caught up in the movie. 
Jack
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Well you guys defintely aren't "videopiles" 
-David
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That's why they tell in advance; so you would notice!
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Wow, am I so unattentive that I missed all these transitions? I don't recall one! I'll have to pop it in again before I send my netflix copy tomorrow. We've watched it twice on our 73" rp-dlp and missed the transitions both times, but now because of all of you geeks fellow Axiom members I'll never again be able to view it without constantly nitpicking the film for flaws. 
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Glad we could help, Rick!
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Well you guys defintely aren't "videopiles" I'm surprised words such as "videopiles" were not mentioned in George Orwell's book 1984, and called "trollspeak"
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Being a videophile is a worse curse than being an audiophile.
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***********
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Well, it can be more expensive.
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now because of all of you geeks fellow Axiom members I'll never again be able to view it without constantly nitpicking the film for flaws. I had to return the favor; after all, everyone stole the warm fuzzy feeling I get from the black box on my speaker cables. 
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Really? Check this link out
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Oh great, now we've got a demerit bot! Everyone be careful about making some comment about a movie that you didn't see, a band you didn't hear, a place you didn't visit, and so forth.
Farewell - June 4, 2020
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it would have been alot better if it were in 7.1 instead of 5.1.
Picture and sound were great. I found that the sound was alot better on Hellboy 2.
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I found that the sound was alot better on Hellboy 2. Really? I will have to revist Hellboy 2. I watched it before I had the surrounds hooked up in the new room.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Rectify this at once or else your man card is in danger. I don't think PG-13 movies have any bearing on man card validity.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Wow, am I so unattentive that I missed all these transitions? I don't recall one! Me neither. Did't notice one transition. I just got caught up in the movie. I watched it for the third time this week at home. Regular theater, IMAX, then home. It wasn't until this third time that I caught on that the screen size was changing for the IMAX film portions. If your looking for it, you will see it but otherwise it transitions very smoothly. WHAT A SHAME we don't have Heath Ledger's acting to look forward to anymore. His portrayal of the Joker as a truly chaotic natured individual was simply beyond words. I actually found the whole exploration of a character totally motivated by a need for chaos, rather than greed, one of the best parts of the film. It also occurred to me that, as the Joker implies, he doesn't have any super powers to rely on, nor did he rely on being a millionaire to fund powerful weapons to compensate. How far of a stretch would it be for a person with a similar chaotic personality and equal cunning, to create and induce the same havoc in the real world as the Joker did. Sooner or later, it seems bound to happen.
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Heath did a good job as the Joker, but otherwise, until Batman came out and there was all of the hype about his death, I really didn't know who he was. I think that I've only seen one other movie with him in it and he didn't stand out. While he does a great job as the Joker, and I really like the new style Batman movies (vs. the cheesy "song and dance" versions from the past), I don't think that he was the greatest villian of all time because of Heath's performance. Again, not a slam, I really like this movie and Heath's performance as this character, but I wonder how much less "popular" it would have been if Heath was still alive today.
Just providing some food for thought, nothing more. Oh, except to try to take this topic off-subject like we do so well.
As for the transitions, SOME of us are still waiting for Christmas to get their Blu-Ray player and movies. UGH...
Farewell - June 4, 2020
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In my humble opinion, nickbuol, DK should be the first disk you pop in. That way, every other Blu-ray will be a complete let down for months, and more likely years, to come. Isn't that the nature of this hobby! I watched Tropic Thunder last night, and, well, it aint Batman. Looks fine, but those IMAX frames are like HD crack - I gotta get more of that.
What player do you expect Santa to leave? (way off topic now...)
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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but I wonder how much less "popular" it would have been if Heath was still alive today. I would agree that his death certainly pushed him to the head of the pack. Without that, most would have waited to see if he followed it up with another great performance. But watching it again, and fully discounting the death-bump, I think he ranks in the top 5 of all villains (not that I have a list). The thing that does it, as Murph points out, is the real world believability of the character. His role pulled the film closer to reality. When one actor, especially a villain in a Batman movie, of all things, can make the suspension of disbelief much easier to achieve, that is a special performance. And the IMAX helps...
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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We just watched the second Narnia last night and DK last Sunday. While I didn't like the movie as much as DK, I think it topped DK for visual and audio quality. I've not heard the SB's this active before.
I have a 2.35 set up and didn't notice the change from 1.78 to 2.35 at all. Now that I've read this thread, I'll probably notice it big time the next time I watch it.... Dangit...
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I think it topped DK for visual and audio quality. Really? Beats DK in visual quality on a projector?? Holy Batcrap, I gota check this Narnia movie out.
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I've heard that too. At AVS, DK gets 96 for Audio and 94 for Video the same reviewer gives Narnia 2 a 100 (perfect score) for Audio and a 98 for Video.
DK = 95 overall out of 100
N2 = 99 overall out of 100
The difference for some will be the stories. I have both of them... I mean, Santa is bringing me both for Christmas, so I won't know first hand until then.
Farewell - June 4, 2020
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Not sure if I already posted this, but make sure you *SET* the audio to TrueHD. It defaults to Dolby digital and the movie plays immediately (no main menu first). Joker was pretty good as was Michael Cain. It was a good movie all around!
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Yeah.. I make a habit of checking all blurays and HD-DVD's and seeing what the default audio is. They should make an option in the PS3 (or other players) to automatically choose certain sound formats if they exist on the source.
-David
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While he does a great job as the Joker, and I really like the new style Batman movies (vs. the cheesy "song and dance" versions from the past), I don't think that he was the greatest villian of all time because of Heath's performance. It all starts with the writing, naturally, but I'd say his interpretation of the Joker, as written, was inspired. I thought they did a great job making his character interesting, which they still haven't done for Batman. I never really cared about Heath Ledger. I liked him all right, at first, when he was in 10 Things I Hate About You, and then he seemed to have an attitude which I didn't care for, along with being in movies I had no interest in. Maybe his death has created a lot more conversation over his role as the Joker, but the conversation could have just as easily been, "It's too bad he didn't have a better final performance." It's some fine acting.
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Well, I didn't state that he was the best actor ever or had moved to the top of the pack. I said it was a Shame that we will never see him act again. In essence, we won't get to know his potential.
Some people are born to play a single role but never excel at any others. Now we will never know for sure.
However, I do agree that death is a very unfortunate way to gain further recognition.
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I think it topped DK for visual and audio quality. Really? Beats DK in visual quality on a projector?? Holy Batcrap, I gota check this Narnia movie out. Ya.... It's so sharp and crisp it competes with annie's. The LFE at times reaches so low the hair on my legs feels it. DK will test black level though. Probably the new standard for testing a display's blacks. I'm looking foward to watching it again with my RS20 after Santa drops it off.
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It will be interesting to see what the producers will do now since the ending provided the obvious vehicle for the sequel. In my opinion, no matter how you slice it, Heath Ledger's "Joker" was a pretty dominating performance in the movie and along with the tons of money generated in the theaters let alone the DVD release, he definitely would have been an important part of the Batman franchise in to the future.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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I'm looking foward to watching it again with my RS20 after Santa drops it off. That Santa is a good guy! 
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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I have not been a particularly huge Heath Ledger fan. Certainly not a "bad" actor, but I felt his popularity was based more on his looks than on his acting prowess. So, truthfully, I was assuming that the hype surrounding his performance in DK was in response to his tragic and untimely death. Hence, I wasn't expecting all that much from his role. I must admit that I was stunned by his performance. If you'll forgive the scatalogical reference, he scared the crap outa me  . I thought it was a tour do force performance unlike none I'd ever seen before. Like others, I now regret that we will never have to opportunity to see what more, if any, he was capable of delivering.
Jack
"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
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 Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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axiomite
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I watched the Blu-Ray disk last night. Surprisingly good. Three comments : 1. It seems that the aspect ratio changes from 1.78 to 2.4 and back a number of times. I got a bit tired of adjusting the zoom each time (constant area, you know) -- any idea why this is ? 2. The cape and the motorcycle seemed like a really bad mix. We should set a better example for our youth. 3. Heath Ledger's performance as the Joker was as good as I had heard, although for some reason I was expecting a completely different character from what was played. It's always hard to say how much of the final impact comes from writing, production or acting, but in this case I think they nailed all three. I always wondered what Dr. House would have been like if he weren't bound by that pesky "do no harm" rule
Last edited by bridgman; 12/17/08 08:51 PM.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Mike, from your location you shuld be able to drop by Santa's shop and pick it up to ease his load.
Jason
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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axiomite
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I watched the Blu-Ray disk last night. Surprisingly good.
Three comments :
1. It seems that the aspect ratio changes from 1.78 to 2.4 and back a number of times. I got a bit tired of adjusting the zoom each time (constant area, you know) -- any idea why this is ?
It's because some of the scenes were filmed in the Imax format.
***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Santa?? I was told when I was just a young chap that he didn't exist???  What's going on
The only reasonable argument for owning a gun is to protect yourself from the police.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Santa?? I was told when I was just a young chap that he didn't exist??? What's going on That's why he is getting the D-ILA projector and you and I are not! I knew that would catch up with me someday.
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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I watched the Blu-Ray disk last night. Surprisingly good. 1. It seems that the aspect ratio changes from 1.78 to 2.4 and back a number of times. I got a bit tired of adjusting the zoom each time (constant area, you know) -- any idea why this is ? This appears to be one of those few times the upper crust of the videophiles got punished for their lavish setups. For us 16:9 poor folk it is great, IMAX fills the 16:9 without black bars. Batman is clearly a man of the common people!
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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axiomite
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Ooh, "lavish". I like the sound of that... 4x8 sheet of formica, 2:1 aspect ratio. For 1.78 format I zoom out a bit until the picture fills the screen height. For 2.35:1 I zoom in a bit until the picture fills the screen width. But "constant area" sounds so much better
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Does the formica really work? I'm on the edge of going projector and this whole screen things is really hard to figure out. I hear drywall, formica, cheap DIY screen, and expensive screens. Can they all be near the same? (I know, wrong thread...)
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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I researched screens to death as I was on a budget. After 6 months, the seam filling is still not complete in the new room but I have tested out my new screen thoroughly and I am extremely pleased. After viewing tons of comments and test results, including some done by actual light meters and such, I went with a $130.00 sheet of laminate and built my own frame. Specifically, it was WilsonArt Designer White. I am very, very pleased with the results paired with my 1080p projector in a very dark room. It is as clear as my HD-TV for sure, but 106" in size. However, the correct choice for you also depends on your room and projector types. Aside from material, there are many levels of white screens and grey colored screens. To over simplify, white screens can give you more brilliant colors but require a VERY dark room. If you have windows or can't otherwise totally control your light levels, a grey screen will be preferable. It will help with deeper black levels. I think I have some much longer posts on this topic back when I was in the research phase this spring. You may find further detail there as I'm out of typing time. I can come back for questions later though. www.ProjectorCentral.com has some great info and thier forums are very active with these types of questions. There was another forum I found very informative as well, but this is the only URL I can remember at this time.
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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axiomite
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I went through something similar - months of research followed by a couple of hours of action In my case it wasn't clear at all what kind of screen I should get (even the tradeoff between white and grey didn't have an easy answer) so I figured the best way to learn was to try something and see how it worked. I was trying to find the WilsonArt that Murph mentioned but every WilsonArt dealer I went to only seemed to sell Formica. I ended up going with a white formica that was "a bit shinier than matte". I think it cost $40 or so. I was worried about hotspotting but there was none visible. Bottom line is that I'm quite happy with the screen and have no plans to change it. FWIW, I'm also real happy with the decision to keep the 2:1 aspect ratio. I was also flip-flopping between a 2.35:1 and 16:9 screen and the answers kept coming back "depends what you watch the most". Given that I seem to watch about a 50:50 mix of 2.35 and 1.78 DVDs that wasn't real useful The obvious problem with cutting the screen for one aspect ratio or the other is that you end up with an image that is a bit small when viewing the "other" aspect ratio, and end up with a different optimal viewing distance as a result. Going with a 2:1 screen and being willing to zoom in and out a bit gave me roughly the same apparent image size both ways, so I can plant my butt in the same spot no matter what is on the player.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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I tried three different types of Formica/laminate from Home Depot & Lowes and they were all awful, so it's not as easy as it might sound. Some ended up being partially transparent, and others were downright reflective (handy if you want a sunburn, otherwise not great).
I couldn't get the Wilson Art in my area, so I ended up getting a screen from Elite Screens. I think I paid ~$300 for a 92" fixed frame screen with a nice velvet frame. It paired with my projector creates an absolutely wonderful picture. For as cheap as the elite screens are, it wasn't worth it to me to go through the DIY process.
Jason
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Thanks Murph, Bridgman and Jason, I'll keep all that in mind. I appreciate the info and a stoked to hear there are good options at affordable prices. Some of the DIY screens for under$200 had me sold, so this is even better. And $300 for a done deal is at least not a terrible "worst case".
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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We just watched the second Narnia last night and DK last Sunday. While I didn't like the movie as much as DK, I think it topped DK for visual and audio quality. I've not heard the SB's this active before. I gotta disagree on this Narnia thing. Perhaps my TV is just not good enough to see the quality of Narnia, but on my 720P RP DLP, DK was leaps and bounds better. Perhaps in DVD Narnia is better, but on B-Ray it is not even close - again, on my set. The IMAX images on DK made my TV look better than ever before. Narnia was good, but the blacks were not even close, and clarity of only a few scenes equals much of DK. In essence, DK looks like live action (picture window), while Narnia looks like good special effects with that computer look. For sound, I can see Narnia offering more in terms of demo material in that is has significant surround action, etc. But again, I felt it lacked the clarity and precision of DK. Very different material, but I can see a preference for Narnia. But images, wow, I'm surprised there is a strong belief that the Narnia B-Ray is better than DK. At least it forced me to watch Narnia with the kids last night. All good!
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Maybe if the monk weren't deaf.....
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Maybe if the monk weren't deaf..... Well then it would just be pretty lamp cord, now wouldn’t it! Besides, this way he is not persuaded by the sound, just the art of it!
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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devotee
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Now if only I could hear the film well while wearing my batman cowl.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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A friend of mine just got a BR player (sony 550) and I'm going over to watch Batman tonight on his 100" projection screen. It will be my first BR experience, so I'm looking forward to seeing how it looks. I'm not expecting much sound wise, as he needs to upgrade his speaker system, but hopefully that will be decent as well with the new audio formats.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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A friend of mine just got a BR player (sony 550) and I'm going over to watch Batman tonight on his 100" projection screen. It will be my first BR experience, so I'm looking forward to seeing how it looks. I'm not expecting much sound wise, as he needs to upgrade his speaker system, but hopefully that will be decent as well with the new audio formats. Well, did we kill it for you by overhyping it? I hate when that happens.
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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There were 6 of us, and 4 of the 6 had seen Batman already, so we ended up watching Hancock instead. I liked it mostly, and the picture looked good, but I have never watched a standard DVD on his projector, so it was tough to say how much better it looked.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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fyi...even though the screen jumps to full 1.78:1 for the IMAX scenes, you're still not getting the full original IMAX picture as it was shot. (IMAX is 1.43:1) So for the full effect, be sure to visit your local IMAX theatre next month and see it as it was really meant to bee seen. Yes, that was a completely shameless plug. note: try to visit the largest IMAX theatre in your area. Not all IMAX theatres are alike. If it's possible avoid the newer "MPX" or Digital screens. While they're better than a 35mm theatre, they're not a full 1.43:1 screen size, which is what you'll want for The Dark Knight.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Oh, it's coming around again next month? Awesome. I'll have to catch it this time.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Sweet! If it's early enough, maybe I can catch it next week??
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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So for the full effect, be sure to visit your local IMAX theatre next month and see it as it was really meant to bee seen. Yes, that was a completely shameless plug. You have a freaken IMAX theater!?! You poor bastard, how can we help? I think I have room in my closet for the projector, you looken to sell? I was goin for the new Pany 3000, but I could go IMAX. Althouh I hear it has bad lip sync problems on PS3 so perhaps I'll pass. yeah, that's the ticket.
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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axiomite
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Sorry Peter, I think it's scheduled for 1/23.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Finished Dark Knight on BR last night. Very good. Even more impressive was Ledger's version of the Joker. Though Nicholson's campy version fit the script of years ago, Ledger's fit the dark story line that is now being scripted. I thought he did a great job.
Curious how they'll write up the next movie w/ Batman as a true outlaw.
Now I'll have to wait for Watchmen, as long as it really makes it to the big screen...
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Curious how they'll write up the next movie w/ Batman as a true outlaw.
This is where Robin will finally enter into the picture.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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I have heard rumors of Robin rearing his annoying head. Hopefully they'll figure out a way to make that character valid. re: Watchmen...it's not only making it to the big screen, it's making it to the REALLY big screen.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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I watched Dark Knight the other night and thought it gave my EP500 a good workout. I can't believe no one has mentioned the sound editing strategy to make every punch be accompanied by a big dose of house-rattling bass. Very visceral, and very loud.
My wife loves that movie. I like it pretty well, but she probably has it on her top ten.
Bears, beets, Battlestar Galactica.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Very visceral, and very loud. I think what I really enjoyed was that entire track seeks to elicit a visceral response from each score. Even the scores that are not significantly sub-50Hz still had a pulsing stress to them that I found really captivating - or, as you said - visceral. If you saw the bonus material, you see how the did some of the sounds, and it is really cool “out of the box” stuff. Great score.
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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[quote=Ajax][quote=Hansang]
I actually found the whole exploration of a character totally motivated by a need for chaos, rather than greed, one of the best parts of the film.
I think this sums up the movie best for me. I found that underlying theme fascinating. Ledger pulled it off very well. I love the scene where he is talking to Harvey Dent in the hospital.
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
-Max Payne
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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I love the acting where Joker explains his scars with two different lies to two different people. Each was delivered so well, they both seemed like the real explanation. Don't know why, but that just struck me as damn good acting.
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Hey people, could we have some spoiler tags here, please?
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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OK, but you're not going to like it.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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 Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Hey people, could we have some spoiler tags here, please? Sorry about that. I figured if you were reading this page you had seen the film. I should have put the spoiler alert in the thread title. Seriously, I apologize if that ends up makeing the film any less enjoyable, we all deserve to see it in full. BUT SEE THE FILM ALREADY! And don't worry, I didn't ruin the story for you. SPOILER ALERT - the joker is F'en nuts, he says all kinds of stuff. But, Darth Vadar is Luke's father. Sorry, I have been keeping that in for years.
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Calvin , How do you create spoiler tags
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
-Max Payne
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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I'm too new to fourms, I did not know what a spoiler tag was. [Spoiler] He really meant a tag. I could not resist. [Spoiler]
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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I have no clue what I am doing either
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
-Max Payne
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Hey people, could we have some spoiler tags here, please? Ken, Why So Serious?
*Michael*
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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I love the acting where Joker explains his scars with two different lies to two different people. Each was delivered so well, they both seemed like the real explanation. Don't know why, but that just struck me as damn good acting. One of my very favorite parts of the movie as well. Such convincing madness. I actually felt bad for him after the first story...then when he tells it differently the second time, it was actually very creepy how real it was. Amazing stuff. WHY SO SERIOUS? I really didn't get that on the posters and t-shirts etc. It's actually one of the most memorable lines from the movie now...so disturbing though...a daring risk on the marketing department's part.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Spoiler alert.....I thought the part where the Joker admits his crush on Robin was over the top though.
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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I saw that movie in the theatre with my 16 yr old son. My wife has some coupons for BlockBuster and he told her to get that movie. BUT I don't have my new speakers yet. What's a guy to do?
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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If you have already seen it, then watch again on the bad setup you have now. Use it as the baseline test for when your speakers arive. Make that the first BluRay you drop in. You likely will never doubt your purchase after that. That's not Axiom specific, just at this price range and quality point, you are going to be floored by the change.
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Spoiler alert.....I thought the part where the Joker admits his crush on Robin was over the top though. I think you saw the "The Darkest Night, A Young Psycho's Romp through Gotham" [cue 70s porn music]. Whole different film. NOT THAT THERE IS ANYTHING WRONG WITH IT!
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Ohhh, you're talking about the OTHER Darkest Night.
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Yes, this an audio forum on Dark Knight, not a . . . social forum...about the Darkest Night. Yeah, if you could move on over to the other forum, that would be great, yeah. 
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Is that the one where Robin is in REALLY tight tights?
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Thanks to Zimm for clearing that up for me.
Last edited by BoB/335; 01/10/09 09:28 PM.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Is that the one where Robin is in REALLY tight tights? I don't know, ask Adrian.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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It's only a matter of time before Robin and the Joker come out of the closet...one wears leotards with a bondage mask and the other guy wears more makeup than the members of Kiss and Motley Crue combined.
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Is there anyone that doesn't like The Dark Night?
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
-Max Payne
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Me, but I haven't seen it
Jason
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Is there anyone that doesn't like The Dark Night? I didn't like it. After renting it I doubt that I'd buy it. I found it too long and it couldn't keep it's focus. Instead of a single strong plot, it was as if they tried too hard to string a number of different plots together and the pieces just didn't quite fit. It seemed clumsy. Not to mention there was like 6 or 7 climaxes in the movie. As the movie stumbled along I started feeling more fatigued rather than excited as the ending approached. As far as Batman movies go, I enjoyed Batman Begins much more. And compared to other action movies, I also enjoyed Iron Man and Transformers ('07) more than this one.
Epic 50 - 500 System ( M50 / QS4 / VP100 / EP500 )
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there was like 6 or 7 climaxes in the movie. As the movie stumbled along I started feeling more fatigued rather than excited as the ending approached. I've seen movies like that, too. My wife doesn't like me to watch them. I don't remember anything involving batman, though.... Regarding the last sentence, you my want to try more green M&Ms...
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
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Thats interesting. I enjoyed the more complicated plot. Then again, I like to read books that follow parallel plots as well.
Fred
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Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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I loved the way the plot was connected and thought it fit very well and the Joker was extremely entertaining to watch. My only knock on it however is that some character development was a bit rushed especially with one character in particuliar in which I think could have been developed into the plot of the next Batman movie.
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
-Max Payne
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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I agree, Dr. House. I thought the Harvey Dent character could have been stretched out a bit more to make the transformation just a bit more plausible.
***********
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It will be interesting to see where they go with the villains in the next movie. IMO it will be hard to top the acting performance of Heath Ledger and Aaron Eckhart.
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
-Max Payne
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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I agree, Dr. House. I thought the Harvey Dent character could have been stretched out a bit more to make the transformation just a bit more plausible. If they had known that one villain would not be available for the next film, they might have given the other a longer lifeline. Now we must go back to the Penguin...
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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Or they will just try to find another actor willing to step in to the role of the Joker, but I wouldn't count on it for at least a couple of movies.
Jason
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Taking on the role of The Joker in a future film is defiantly going to be a serious CLM. Even if they are actually brilliant, the "cool" thing to say will be that he wasn't as good as Heath Ledger.
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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I don't know about that, I think the 'cool' thing to say would be the truth.
Jason
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CLM? Sorry, I'm sooooooo not hip.
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CLM? Sorry, I'm sooooooo not hip.
Farewell - June 4, 2020
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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shareholder in the making
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Career Limiting Move, I'm guessing.
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There are a lot of great actors that can jump right in and play the role of Joker. The toughest part will be the actor and the director trying to mesh each of their own creative spins on the character to make it distinct from Heath Ledger and Jack Nicholson portryal. Each of which were brilliant.
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
-Max Payne
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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LFR1100 Actives,QS10HPx2,QS8x2,EP800,M3x4,M3x2 (Wood),M5HPx2 (Wood),AxiomAir,ADA1500-8,ADA1500-7
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
-Max Payne
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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shareholder in the making
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You're dating yourself Steve, ooops so am I, as I know who you are talking about!
Jason
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LOL! At first I thought he was referring to the dog trainer that is on t.v (different last name). Than I remembered about the original Batman movie and the television show. It was a bit before my time so it slipped my mind. 
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
-Max Payne
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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A bit before mine, but I saw the TV shows in re-runs in the early 70's. He was about 60 years old in the TV show... amazing.
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Re: Is Dark Knight the new demo standard?
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...with Pixar movies being the highest standard, though they cheat by using computers to animate their films. Those bastards! Pixar begin all animation as hand-drawns and have a policy to never re-use rendered footage or skeleton animations in any movie. Compare that to the hundreds of examples that show disney recycling their animation footage and I think you'll find it's unfair to say that pixar "cheat by using computers".
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Is PIXAR the new demo standard?
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aficionado
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So PIXAR is the new Demo Standard?
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Re: Is PIXAR the new demo standard?
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Actually, you should get the best video from a quality animated flick like those that Pixar puts out. The video is 100% digital (at some point) and doesn't have grain or even any flaws unless they specifically add it. Plus since all of the audio is done in the studio with effects being added in, they *should* have great sound as well.
So maybe a Pixar movie should be the demo standard, however some people like the "coolness" factor of something like The Dark Knight.
Farewell - June 4, 2020
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Re: Is PIXAR the new demo standard?
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Actually, you should get the best video from a quality animated flick like those that Pixar puts out. The video is 100% digital (at some point) and doesn't have grain or even any flaws unless they specifically add it. Plus since all of the audio is done in the studio with effects being added in, they *should* have great sound as well.
So maybe a Pixar movie should be the demo standard, however some people like the "coolness" factor of something like The Dark Knight. For me, it is a bit more than that. Animation is just that. So while it might look incredible, it won't look real because it isn't. So I don't know how real Buzz Light-year looks. Whereas, I know what a skyscraper at night looks like so the accuracy is quantifiable, which is what I'm thinking of in terms of demo material. Don't get me wrong, I love the Pixar films, fantastic stuff. But as a demo standard, I have a hard time using them as you can't really determine accuracy, just wow factor. And, some films are now recorded in digital from the start. I think Collateral was filmed in digital, so animations are no longer the only pure digital signals. And DK was in IMAX, so you have a transfer to deal with, but the amount of information is so much more (100% more actually) that the impact of any transfer issues is much less than traditional film. My 2 cents...
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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I just like watching movies. You know, with decent storylines and such.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Toy Story has a great storyline!
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and sound and video!
Epic 80-800: HG Cherry
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Hey, speaking of Toy Story, just two weeks until my WDW vacation! YEE-HAAAAA!
Bears, beets, Battlestar Galactica.
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Re: Is PIXAR the new demo standard?
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I watched Kung Fu Panda on Blu-ray today and I must say the audio and video is reference quality . I was expecting the video to be superb but what really surprised me was the Dolby TrueHd sound track. The overall sound quality is outstanding. There is lots of LFE in the movie which resonates the room and is prominent throughout (very surprsing and awesome). The use of the surrounds is also very well done, especially with the QS4/QS8 which create that spatial sound field throughout the room, the Axioms truely shine . I am not one for animated kids films but I must say I enjoyed the actual story. I usually find these types of films annoying and "cheesy" especially the voice acting but I did not find that at all with this film. This movie is definitly one to please the audiophile as well as the tykes. It is a winner all around!
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
-Max Payne
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Re: Is PIXAR the new demo standard?
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And, some films are now recorded in digital from the start. I think Collateral was filmed in digital, so animations are no longer the only pure digital signals. And DK was in IMAX, so you have a transfer to deal with, but the amount of information is so much more (100% more actually) that the impact of any transfer issues is much less than traditional film.
My 2 cents...
True, but digital does not mean a clean picture. Digital and film are both just different ways of capturing video. One put it on a filmstrip and the other on to some digital media. If there is a smudge on the lens, it is there on film AND on digital. Not that I would think that a camera man would have a smudge on the lens, but just as example. The recording straight to digital and not to film just makes it easier to add digital special effects (CGI) later on, and makes sure that each copy of the video is an exact match, but again digital does not mean better quality. Ad for DK and the IMAX filmed piece, there is still a transfer that needs to take place, even if the original source is as outstanding as IMAX. I think that the transfer for DK was excellent, but all transfers are subject to whatever setting are used during the encoding process. With DK, they got the settings right. Now that I've said all of that, I honestly don't think that I have used any animated video as part of a demo. It has always been a live action flick. Even my demo DVDs that I have (and I have about 35 of them) I usually skip over the animated movies and go for the action ones, or ones that show off ambient sound and good video pieces.
Farewell - June 4, 2020
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I would think that there is "noice" inherent in any tape product (film) that would be eliminated going direct to a digital hardrive or something.
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I thought that "Wanted" had very good sound effects.
-David
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I would think that there is "noice" inherent in any tape product (film) that would be eliminated going direct to a digital hardrive or something. Think of it this way, most people think that all MP3's are great because they are digital, but they are compressed (yes, some sound way better than others). Heck, even CDs (digital) are compressed, and some are better than others. I'm just saying that because it is digital doesn't automatically mean that it is... That is all I am saying.
Farewell - June 4, 2020
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Re: Is PIXAR the new demo standard?
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OP
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Think of it this way, most people think that all MP3's are great because they are digital, but they are compressed (yes, some sound way better than others). Heck, even CDs (digital) are compressed, and some are better than others. I'm just saying that because it is digital doesn't automatically mean that it is... That is all I am saying.
That is definitely true. My point re digital was simply that newer films are making the transfer less of a source of error. In the past a transfer could ruin a good film - e.g., the original 5th Element BR disk that was of lower quality than the DVD. Now, either direct to digital or IMAX source, etc., mean there is more information and less transfer tools need to get a HD image on a BR disk from the original picture. Animation clearly skips that, so noise is not an issue. But even animation can suffer from noise and other anomalies due to bad input – Shit-in, Shit-out. So all have their weaknesses. And I need to do Panda again. I watched it with the kids on DVD and it was fine, but I have heard many talk about the reference quality of the BR. Also, anyone here used Barka as a demo disk? I have never seen it, but keep hearing it is the be-all and end-all of BR demo material. I still think DK is the best overall I have come across in terms of sound, shadow detail, scale, image accuracy, depth, etc., but I was once told not all people share my opinions...crazy talk.
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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Yeah, I figured we were on the same page about this, just pointing out two different aspects of that same page....
Farewell - June 4, 2020
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And DK was in IMAX, so you have a transfer to deal with, but the amount of information is so much more (100% more actually)... IMAX is actually over 8x larger than standard 35mm. Don't sell us short! 
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OP
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Good point, I was just thinking 35 v 70, but that does not tell the story in terms of volume of information. Thanks for the correction.
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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Re: Is PIXAR the new demo standard?
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And after much delay i re-watched Kung Fu Panda. Actually, I did Kung Fu Panda, then Madagascar 2, then Casino Royale. Yes my butt was sore. Kung Fu Panda is much better than I gave it credit for. It works the surrounds and sub throughout. I think my sub is lacking the depth it needs to really feel it, at several spots i was just waiting for the shock wave, but it just kind of passed with minimal fanfare. Mada 2 is fine but no standards to be found. Casino Royale was better than I remembered. Great visuals, truly first rate, and the sound was very good. Not up to the Batman level but very good. In my humble opinion, Batman is still the best material i can feed my system to showcase its skill. Although my foray into the Blue Man Group may push that up for sound - wow, what a workout.
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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Re: Is PIXAR the new demo standard?
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The next movie I am going to try out on Blu-ray is Black Hawk Down. Should be sweet . Time to watch Kung Fu Panda again .
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
-Max Payne
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I need to rent Black Hawk Down in BR. Have not watched it in years and that was DVD. It is an exhausting film, but should be great for the theater.
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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Re: Is PIXAR the new demo standard?
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OP
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Well, Dark Knight just won the Academy Award for best sound, so I guess that makes it the reference for sound for 2008.
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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Re: Is PIXAR the new demo standard?
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Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
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Well, for Sound Editing. Slumdog Millionaire for Sound Mixing. I guess you have to choose if you prefer your sound edited or mixed.
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Re: DK the new demo standard?
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Joined: Dec 2008
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I prefer it stirred. But come on, in forum land an Academy Award has to answer the question, right????? Didn't it win for special effects as well?
Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire
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Re: DK the new demo standard?
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,116
connoisseur
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connoisseur
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,116 |
And in the "loudness wars" best dynamic range compression goes too...
I’m armed and I’m drinking. You don’t want to listen to advice from me, amigo.
-Max Payne
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