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Re: SMALL vs LARGE (especially you Onkyo/Denon own
pmbuko #235324 12/17/08 03:04 AM
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 Originally Posted By: pmbuko
It's not hostility. Chess gets excited sometimes. \:\)


Whoohoo!!! When I get excited I . . . .um, never mind. . .


***********
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose
Re: SMALL vs LARGE (especially you Onkyo/Denon own
St_PatGuy #235331 12/17/08 03:57 AM
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Ok, Chess has got me a little confused. In the 5+ years I've been monitoring this board, AVSforum, AV123, AudioCircle, etc. Most people advocate that if the bass management crossover points are going to be handled by the AVR or pre/pro, then you should turn the sub's crossover knob on "bypass" or if the sub does not have this setting, use the highest setting to get it out of the way of the AVR to handle.

So are you saying you don't follow this norm? Some receivers have one universal setting for all channels, however, today most receivers have independent settings for each channel. In either case, the crossover selection is where the LFE is redirected to the sub, in my case for speakers set to small.


M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85


Re: SMALL vs LARGE (especially you Onkyo/Denon own
SirQuack #235334 12/17/08 04:05 AM
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It is hard to convince folks that their "large" speakers should be small. No amount of reasoning will change their minds. After all, my xxx speaker has 20" woofers and makes my coffee so I will leave it large.

If you have a properly setup sub (or subs), then what benefit can you get from speakers that can never be optimally placed for bass? Why not let the sub do its job.

And yes, Dolby and THX know a thing or two about this. Why would you not listen to them?

Re: SMALL vs LARGE (especially you Onkyo/Denon own
dewd #235353 12/17/08 05:52 AM
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I tried both suggestions below. The suggestion about running the mains and now my center ;\) large works to great effect in taming the bass in my 20x20 room. The other suggestion of using cascading crossovers didn’t help as using the receiver’s alone worked perfectly.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/sub_setup.html

 Originally Posted By: Alan Lofft

For Axiom’s larger tower speakers--the M80ti’s, M60ti’s, and M50ti’s--depending on the particulars of room size, start by selecting the "Large" setting on your receiver for the left and right main speakers, and "Small" for the center and surround channels. With these settings, and the subwoofer set to "On," most receivers will route full-range sound, including deep bass, to the main left and right speakers, and bass below 80 Hz to the "Sub Out" jack on the rear panel of the receiver. (Some rooms may benefit from smoother bass by getting deep bass from three room locations--the sub plus the main left and right speakers--rather than a single subwoofer.) If running your left and right fronts on "Large" produces too much bass output, change the settings for the mains to "Small."


http://www.axiomaudio.com/settingsubwoofers.html

 Originally Posted By: Alan Lofft

In most systems, at least at the beginning, set everything to Small and the subwoofer crossover frequency in the receiver to 80 Hz. Later on you can experiment with different settings if you want.)


 Originally Posted By: Alan Lofft

Note: If a user wants to experiment and set the subwoofer's crossover at the same frequency as the receiver's crossover, better integration of the subwoofer may be achieved. Experiments at Axiom have shown that with the EP400/500/600 subs, it's advantageous to do so because of the brick-wall algorithms in the DSP circuits.


I’m not sure why people care so much about others deviating from “conventional wizdom” (read Dolby and THX) with their own systems or recommending experimentation to others. I did so at the suggestion of Alan Lofft based on his comments in “Featured Articles” here on the Axiom site. While the standard settings are probably a great starting point for most people there is no reason to stay with them if deviating works better for someone.

Last edited by grunt; 12/17/08 06:31 AM. Reason: Dyslexia

3M80 2M22 6QS8 2M2 1EP500 Sony BDP-S590 Panny-7000 Onkyo-3007 Carada-134 Xbox Buttkicker AS-EQ1
Re: SMALL vs LARGE (especially you Onkyo/Denon own
grunt #235363 12/17/08 10:37 AM
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I run my system with what ever sounds best to me. \:\)


Jason
M80 v2
VP160 v3
QS8 v2
PB13 Ultra
Denon 3808
Samsung 85" Q70
Re: SMALL vs LARGE (especially you Onkyo/Denon own
jakewash #235368 12/17/08 12:30 PM
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I set all of my large speakers to "small" and all of my small speakers to "large".

That's how I roll......


::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: SMALL vs LARGE (especially you Onkyo/Denon own
MarkSJohnson #235373 12/17/08 12:51 PM
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Mark, It probably makes everything more warm and laid back sounding to compensate for the bright wires you are using. Try different speaker wire.


-David
Re: SMALL vs LARGE (especially you Onkyo/Denon own
myrison #235375 12/17/08 01:40 PM
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 Originally Posted By: myrison
PS: What's with all the hostility in this thread? Kumbaya everyone. \:\)

Yes, it's very sad that some are incapable of disagreeing with another without spitting in the face of the person who holds the differing opinion. It's the misguided perception that, in order to refute the message, one must discredit the messenger and the selfish belief that the assumption of being right justifies any rude, inconsiderate, bullying behavior. \:\( (I will now be told that I'm doing the same thing \:\/ )

I think the quotes from Alan sum up the situation very well.


Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
Re: SMALL vs LARGE (especially you Onkyo/Denon own
Ajax #235377 12/17/08 02:12 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Ajax

Yes, it's very sad that some are incapable of disagreeing with another without spitting in the face of the person who holds the differing opinion. It's the misguided perception that, in order to refute the message, one must discredit the messenger and the selfish belief that the assumption of being right justifies any rude, inconsiderate, bullying behavior.


Shut up Jack, you Victrola playing coot!


























::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::
Re: SMALL vs LARGE (especially you Onkyo/Denon own
SRoode #235379 12/17/08 02:17 PM
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I don't 'think' I was misunderstood, but just to be clear, my example using an 80 Hz crossover and stating that M80s are specced to do +/- 3db down to 'roughly' 34 Hz, was just an example used to answer his question asking if the maximumn ranges of M80s and a sub actually mix to produce double bass, if left unchecked.

It was not intended to state where you absolutely need to set your crossover and certainly didn't imply that 34 (or 40) was the correct choice because M80s can produce some sound down there.

The correct choice has many variables unique to everyone. I used 80 simply because it is often used a a safe choice and I used 34 Hz because it is what Axiom rates the speakers to.




Last edited by Murph; 12/17/08 02:19 PM. Reason: clarity

With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.
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