Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Advice regarding Rears in a 7.1 setup

Hello All,

I am looking to make a purchase in the near future and was hoping for some input.

In reviewing the options available, it seems the selector defaults to adding 2 "quadpole" surrounds when choosing a 7.1 setup. Based on THX standards, they seem adamant in suggesting rear speakers in a 7.1 setup should be directional and pointed towards the listeners.

All this as I am debating choosing one of the axiom 5.1 systems and adding bookshelfs for rears(with the quads as surrounds) or going with the "suggested" 4 quad setup.

Let me know what you think!

Thanks in advance,
Mandrake

Welcome to the forum Mandrake,

Do you have the dimensions of your room?

For surrounds (side) I always recommend the QS4 or QS8. For surround back speakers you can go either way IMO. If budget allows I would go with the QS series for surround back as well but bookshelves such as the M2v2 would also be sufficient in that application.

Cheers!

Hello,

Thanks for the reply!

The dimensions are 15' Long, 10' wide and 8' high. There is an opening at the rear left side 5 feet long that extends the rear from 10' wide to approximately 17'.

Any suggestions on packages would also be welcome. I was considering the Epic 50 175 with the possibility of either extra QS4s for the rear or M3V2s.

Considering the "hole" in the room, would unidirectional bookshelves give me better sound for the rear channels?

Secondly, would you consider the M50 series sufficiently future proofed for an eventual larger home theater room? (Say 20'X 15'X10'?)

Thanks again for your help,

Hi Mandrake,

I would suggest upgrading the subwoofer and go with the Epic 50 350 package for $200 more. The EP350 will do a much better job filling in the low end especially for home theatre (movies) as would the EP175. It will be much more satisfying. For the surround back speakers you can go with what you suggested in with the M3v2 (staying on budget). The M3 bookshelf speakers would work best as the surround back because they use the same 6.5" woofer and 1" tweeter as the M50's which would provide an excellent tonal match with your mains.

Cheers!

15ft is not all that deep, so not so sure 7.1 would be a huge improvement, especially if your sitting near the back of that 15' dimension.

To answer your question, I would not give up my rear Q's for bookshelfs, direct radiating is great only if your in the sweet spot.

Personally, I would go with a 5.1 setup right now for two reasons. It will allow you to upgrade to M60s and QS8s which have better depth, midrange and power than the M50s and QS4s and 7.1 in your present room imho doesn't seem necessary. You could add your rears if and when you set up a larger theatre where the M60s would be a better choice in the future room you described. I don't know what your budget is but my own preference, (re. MY) would be to go this route and add rears later if you go to a larger room but not compromise on the 5.1. In the end, it's what YOU want though, happy speaker hunting!

Mandrake,

I have QS8's for both sides and rears. I tried various configurations in the past (both direct and bipole) and I find that I really like the QS8's all around. Since your room is 15', 7.1 will work well if your seating is at least 6-7 feet from the back wall.

Mandrake, welcome. You'll find the QSs to be magical for side surrounds. As to the back surrounds, it may be a relatively close decision. Using QSs there also would be advisable if you were sitting relatively close(say 4-5')to the back speakers, which might make the direct speakers a little too direct at that short distance. On the hand, if you're much farther away(unlikely with a 15' room)the directional speakers would have more room to disperse and could still locate effects specifically intended for the back a little more definitely.

Mandrake - I'd agree with others here. I run a 7.1 setup as well (with QS8s in the rear and on the sides). However, before I put in the two rear speakers, I would consider other upgrades. The upgrade to the M60s and EP350 would be considerably more noticeable than the upgrade to two extra speakers in the back of the room. The upgrade from 5.1 to 7.1 is a very subtle difference, especially in a room of your size. (My own room is only a bit longer than yours, around 20', and in my room the difference is very very minor)

Plus, if you upgrade to M60s and the 350 now, it's very easy to add the other two QS(x) speakers in the future when budget allows. If you do it the other way, it's a lot more difficult to upgrade in the future. Have fun shopping, feel free to keep hitting us up with questions as you consider your options.

Jason

Thank you all so much for your input. I think I am going to bite the bullet and go with the M60 setup. Considering in the package I get the bigger sub, higher end surrounds and better towers, it's hard not to justify the higher price tag.

Now comes step 2, the search for a proper receiver. Any suggestions considering the M60 setup?

Again, all your help is very much appreciated. It seems the more I research, the more indecisive I become. Luckily I have a good friend at a high end audio/video store who would be happy to let me audition some receivers. I just hate going in there since I have to walk by a 7.1 setup with BW CT 800’s and acoustically treated rooms.

I would look at brands such as Denon, Harman Kardon and Pioneer for receivers. What's your price range and the features you need?

Good luck!

The M60s are an easy load on a receiver, and one can be chosen based upon the features you like.

Reputable brands include Denon, Onkyo, Yamaha, Pioneer, Sherwood-Newcastle, Outlaw, Marantz and Harman Kardon. Sony doesn't seem to be as popular with HT enthusiasts, though they're popular at the box stores.

Denons are popular here, based to some degree that they have no problems driving 4 Ohm speakers. Onkyo seems to be the better value of late in terms of feature set. Yamaha always has its fans, and a new model was just top-rated at Audioholics. Sherwood-Newcastle is a high quality option, and sold right here through Axiom (anyone know if the "5 piece discount" applies to S-N?).

Idealy it would be around $1000 but could go a bit higher the payoff is worth it.

I am not concerned with upconversion(I think the upconversion on the Pana 800U will be similar in quality to the Faroudja chipset) but do want the reciever to be able to take a component imput and output via HDMI (One of my media streaming devices only outputs component)

- Component in to HDMI out
-Passthrough is important to avoid HDCP errors.
-7.1 support
- The ability to run two separate sets of speakers
- a GUI is appreciated but not the deciding factor
- A phono input would be nice(I could survive without it and keep my old 70's Marantz in service or get a pre-amp for the receiver)
- The main thing is sound quality > features

Denon 2809.

How about spending a few hundred less on the receiver and then you can get the 7.1 setup? Or another sub... The difference between the $350 Onkyo 606 and the $1000 Onkyo 806 is not that great (for sound). It is worth it only when you jump to the $1500 876, IMHO. I am powering my M60's, VP150, and 4 QS8's with an Onkyo 705 in a room just slightly larger than yours. I can achieve ear splitting levels with this combo.

Check out the Onkyo line and see what you think....

Here are a few to consider. AVR The Onkyo series (at least the 806) does not have a pure pass through of the HMDI signal. Probably not a problem on 99% of setups, but worth knowing if video is a big deal for you. It stopped me from pulling trigger. The higher end Onkyos (875 and up) use an ISF video section and are near your price if you like Onkyo. And I would add Marantz to the short list. Very high quality product. I own a Denon 3300 and love it, except it for its lack of HDMI switching and HD audio codecs.

Regarding the original topic, here is a photo of what I'm using for rears. I had to construct a custom mounting plate for them:



This might have been funnier if we weren't currently discussing receivers and were still discussing rears instead....

I don't want to know who's rear was used to cast that!

Lol, Considering the subject line remains the same, I think the laughter coefficient is undiminished :-)

I DO NOT want to see Mark's fronts!!!

Yep. His fronts are not exactly "towers" from what I hear.

Hehe, agreed.

Last question, has anyone here had any experience using the Axioms with SACD or DVD-Audio? Any comments would be appreciated.

Certainly! They sound great. Well, SACDs do. The only DVD-A I own has a menu system that I can't stand, so I never play it.

I have recently ventured into Blu-ray and lossless audio and I must say I have been blow away with the quality of sound that my Axiom speakers produce with movies such as I,Robot, The Dark Night, Kung Fu Panda etc and multichannel concerts such as the Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds Blu-ray. Stunning!

Axiom speakers benefit greatly from good recordings as they bring out every little nuance (good and bad). SACD and DVD Audio would sound excellent.

Stunning is a perfect word for the DM BR. There is simply no noise, just the sounds they make in complete clarity.

From my own subjective standpoint, clarity is one of the advantages I have noticed with the Blu-ray format and lossless audio in general. Zimm, you have to rent Kung Fu Panda on BR . Your QS8's will sing with glory. . Awesome use of surrounds. One of my favorites.

Hi Mark,

Hilarious rears! Yes, the 5-piece Axiom 5% discount does apply to S-N AV receivers from our site.

Regards,

Alan

I might do that today. I saw the DVD, but everybody seems to really love the BR. No idea why I rented the DVD - oh yes - I convinced my kids DVD only plays in the den, while BR only plays in my theater room. Now I remember.

Let me guess. You used a 45mm hole saw in the center of the plate and called it a day?

65.

I was waiting for someone to ask about what the other side looked like ..... or exactly how it was mounted..... or how many beers did I have before I mounted it.... I'd better stop.....

We just figured it was held on by a couple of nuts, Mark.

That's funny!

. That was some good stuff guys.

Did you get the urge to light up a cigarette afterwards Mark?

Those rears are ported, no doubt.

Hey, I enjoy a discussion about rears as much as the next guy:

Now those are what I call awesome rears.