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#248767 - 02/24/09 06:22 PM Re: SQ8 Question? [Re: Ken.C]
SirQuack Offline
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Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13571
Loc: Iowa
Smitty, the speakers don't have to be exactly symetrical from the seating location, that is why you setup the distance a dB levels for each speaker in the receiver. My left/right Qs8's are about 2ft difference in distance from me, my rears are about the same.
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#248771 - 02/24/09 06:26 PM Re: SQ8 Question? [Re: SirQuack]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

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Posts: 13571
Loc: Iowa
Smitty, the Axioms also have the clip/bar to remove if you want to do bi-amping. However, what your doing is not true biamping.

You would be better off to put the clip back in and only run one set of wires to your mains, you won't lose any bass unless you remove the clip.
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#248772 - 02/24/09 06:27 PM Re: SQ8 Question? [Re: Ken.C]
Smitty4ut Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 25
 Originally Posted By: kcarlile
Smitty, does the manual specify which terminal to hook which output to? If not, then it's not doing any active crossovering. (No, that's not a word...) Also, if there's no way to specify the bi-amp crossover, it's probably not doing it, and if it is, it's not doing it well.

I'd advise you swap terminals, but that might or might not prove anything. I don't think it would be detrimental to the speakers (since the internal, passive crossover network is still working)


I like crossovering (it should be a word). No I don't think the manual says which set of speaker terminals to hook to which output on the receiver. So it probably isn't doing anything.

I still will have to wait to go for a 7.1 system. The area I am filling for my HT is only around 900 cubic ft, not including the adjoining area. So I am not sure that having a 7.1 would envelope me that much more. My HT sitting area is only:
H x W x D 7.5 x 8 x 4.

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#248773 - 02/24/09 06:28 PM Re: SQ8 Question? [Re: Smitty4ut]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3466
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
 Originally Posted By: Smitty4ut
Just trying to learn, so hang with me. My speaker manual says how to Bi-amp, and how to Bi-wire both, and my Studio 60's can be Bi-amped according to the manual. I would agree that it would not make any real difference if I was just running a second set of wires. I am pretty sure that when you configure the Denon for Bi-amp, it only sends the low freq stuff out of those speaker terminals.

I guess if you are correct, then it is just a useless function they have built into this receiver.

If the receiver is performing cross-over duty electronically, then you are stacking cross-overs by still having them inside of the speaker. Also, cross-over design by the speaker maker is a little more than a frequency and a slope, so even if the cross-overs were removed from the speakers getting the same voicing by going with an electronic cross-over in the receiver could be a little difficult.

This blurb puts it better than I can: http://www.audioholics.com/education/fre...ing-vs-biwiring And the linked article at the end goes into waaay more details, and does present come cases where bi-amping works.

It's not a useless feature, it gets adds a bullet-point to the feature list that all the other receiver makers have too. (Where's the sarcastic mark?) Really though, there's truth to that. I think it came about because people were asking for it, and if the receiver is going to get two zones anyway, might at as well add "Bi-Amping" to the list, as it is just a special case of a B-zone. It's like the 300+ Surround Effect Modes that receivers were growing. No real use for them, but since everyone else had that feature...
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#248774 - 02/24/09 06:32 PM Re: SQ8 Question? [Re: ClubNeon]
Smitty4ut Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 25
Thanks, I will check out that link.

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#248776 - 02/24/09 06:34 PM Re: SQ8 Question? [Re: Smitty4ut]
dewd Offline
local

Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 200
Loc: Mechanicsburg, PA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Smitty4ut


I am not sure that is correct either. Every 3 db is double the volume correct? But as you go up it takes more power to increase another 3db. So it takes a lot more power to go from 75db to 78db than it does from 6 db to 9db. Once again maybe I don't understand, but that was the way it was always explained to me.


A 3db increase is just barely noticeable by human ears. Plus 10 DB is perceived as double. It takes twice the power for each 3db increase.

Like everyone has already said, PASSIVE bi-amping (that's what you are doing) is pointless. Remember the marketing folks want to sell you stuff, so they put in the 'buzzwords' of the day. Kinda like going to Walmart and seeing the huge adverts for watts (more is not always better).


Edited by dewd (02/24/09 06:34 PM)
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#248777 - 02/24/09 06:39 PM Re: SQ8 Question? [Re: dewd]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13571
Loc: Iowa
I don't think a 3dB increase is double the perceived volume. Doubling the power from say 50 to 100watts gives you a 3dB gain, as Dewd said, hardly noticable.
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#248778 - 02/24/09 06:40 PM Re: SQ8 Question? [Re: Smitty4ut]
Smitty4ut Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 25
I knew that once I said that about db's that something wasn't correct. I tried looking it up on Google, but I ended up with formulas.

Well by that article, I am receiving little to no perceivable difference. Thanks for the help. I probably will go 7.1 sometime, just not in the plan for now. And when I do my rears will be in the correct location. I will just have to mount the sides, and pull speaker wires for them. Then more the wires from my surrounds to the rear terminals. "My Brain Hurts"

Time to go watch a mind numbing Blu-ray.

Thanks again for the explanations.


Edited by Smitty4ut (02/24/09 06:57 PM)

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#248782 - 02/24/09 06:55 PM Re: SQ8 Question? [Re: Smitty4ut]
tomtuttle Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8488
Loc: Tacoma
I think 7.1 is massively over-rated, especially in smaller rooms.
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#248784 - 02/24/09 07:00 PM Re: SQ8 Question? [Re: dewd]
ClubNeon Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/06/09
Posts: 3466
Loc: Western Maryland, USA
 Originally Posted By: dewd
A 3db increase is just barely noticeable by human ears. Plus 10 DB is perceived as double. It takes twice the power for each 3db increase.

I was definitely wrong with my 10 dB number. Mapping Watts to dBs is difficult because one scale is linear and the other logarithmic.

But the rest of my point stands. \:\)
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