Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Help choosing speakers for 15x15 room

I am currently deciding which speakers i should get

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i am currently looking at the M22 vs. the M60's

here is a rough drawing of my room which is somewhat to scale

the room i am putting the speakers in is a downstairs living room which is sunken in


By rantarave at 2009-03-03

would the M60's be too much for this room?

i will be using this with either a PB12-NSD or a HSU VTF-3 MK 2

Alex, welcome. No, the M60s certainly wouldn't be too much for that size room; you're in control of how loud the speakers play, not them. Since you're considering two fine subs, the advantage that the M60s would have over the M22s in the lowest bass wouldn't be relevant and the advantage of being able to play at very high levels a little more cleanly than the M22s wouldn't likely come in to play at the levels that you'd be using in that room.

My experience with the M22s and EP500 leads me to suggest that the M22s plus the sub that you're considering would give you excellent results and that you should go that way unless you have some other reason for preferring tower speakers.

You don't mention it, but you should certainly consider getting surround speakers, preferably QSs, for use with all your source materials.

acoustically speaking, not the best room based on demensions, but either speakers will be fine.

Either speaker will do well in that room. I found the M22 + sub to be very similar in sound to the M60 (other than the lower extension of the sub).

If you are not considering a sub, the M60 is a much better choice as it has a much better bottom end.

The J.Lo of speakers...so to speak.

Always side with overkill, so M80 might be your answer.

haha yeah i think in my case the M60's would be overkill,but i think i will get them

but there is a small voice in the back of my head to buy the PSB imagine B which undoubtedly have better imaging/soundstaging than both

Without hearing all the candidates in your room with your material, what makes you so sure that the PSB's "undoubtedly" have better imaging?

Order up a pair of M60s and see if you can get an in home demo of a pair of Image Bs. For the potential cost of return shipping on a pair of towers, you will know for sure which you prefer.

The name, "Imagine," is really close to "imaging."

That's a stretch of the imagation.

I have the M50's (The bang for the $$$ towers. I didn't want boxes on stands.) with the EP500 in a room somewhat similar in volume and they kick a$$ very sweetly.
I've never heard of it being possible to have "to much speaker". Just louder cleaner sound. More flexibilty and options to hear it the way you want.
Of coarse the opposite IS easily possible, but not the case even with these.

Well I know someone with psb stratus silver I's and they have excellent Imaging

Even alan said that the M60 and the stratus silver are comparable

The imagine series a defenate upgrade from the stratus series

Ok, I have the PSB Image series, which sounds a lot like...well Image. So it must be the best.



Hold on now. I think you got your speakers mixed up. The Stratus Series was the top of PSB's line (save for the occasional halo product) and they were fantastic. The stratus gold became the Platinum series and the Stratus Silver became the Synchrony series. (Notice they still share drives even after the name changes.) The Imagine series is below that level, with a different driver set. So your comparison of the Axiom M60 to the Stratus Silver to the Imagine is off by a pay grade. The Synchrony One B would be a closer comparison to the M60.

And I don't see the prices on the PSB site anymore, but if memory serves, the Sync series is considerably more expensive than M60s - around $2000 a pair. So the M60's compare to the $2000 PSBs, not the Imagine B, at $1000 per pair. And the Imagine B is not really a comparable to the M60. The M60 is a tower that gets down to 30Hz while the Imagine bookshelf is done by 55Hz.

As an owner, I like PSB as much as anybody, but you can't mix apples and oranges this way. Either pick a price apple or a class apple, but towers v bookshelf in wildly different prices classes is not the easiest way to compare (for you or us).

Also, I did extensive listening to the Stratus Silvers v my Image towers when I bought. The Stratus was a step up in clarity and dynamics, but not by leaps and bounds. That is why I went for the Image series. I say that because I don't really understand your view that the Imagine is an upgrade from the Stratus (now Platinum and Sync) series. The Imagine is an upgrade to the Image, not the stratus. I hope that helps your comparison.

I just noticed 15x15. Any chance your ceiling is 15 as well? The elusive cube.

thanks for clearing up the PSB comparison for me that was a great help

i guess i was having second thoughts about buying speakers sight unseen

i will prolly go with the axiom M60's because they look much better than the M22 on stands and i think setting a sub properly for music in a 15x15 space would be difficult

oh yeah the room is 15x15x8

I love my M60's. Absolutely no regrets.

No problem. I thought you would be happy. I had never heard the comparison of the M60s to the Stratus Silver - which was a fantastic speaker at a very good price ($3000 a pair i think) - but if that is accurate, the M60 is impressive. I love the look of the new imagine and synchronicity lines. Axiom needs to build a line that embraces the newer non-rectangular design sweeping the industry. (Not M80s, don't go nuts M80 gang!) Perhaps the M81s.

Other than esthetics, I wonder if there is a noticeable sonic advantage to curved or parabolic cabinets?

Marketing says yes, science, I don't know. Just like standing waves in a room, the lack of parallel sides in the cabinet are supposed to prevent standing waves inside the box. B&W's high end speakers use a similar approach. Not sure how much it actually helps, but I like the visual impact.

Charles? Axioms have had non-parallel enclosure sides for many years.

Yes. And I did not know Axiom cabinets were not rectangles. The pics look like rectangles and the official specs don't indicate non-parallel sides - i.e., different widths at the front and back as would be necessary for non-parallel sides. But I only have the QS8 so I'm just making assumptions. Axiom should show the non-box design in pics, as I had never noticed that. The PSB, for example, makes the curve clear and uses that to sell the speaker.

If you go to the products page and go to one of the floorstanders for eg. then click on "photos" there is a good overhead shot of both the angled sides and the depth of the cabinets.

Aren't the Imagine B the bookshelf version of that line? I'll go ahead and doubt that you'll get the same imaging as the M80s. (I haven't heard any bookshelves that approach that scale).

Totems.

Killer!

See, that's good imaging!!

Really brings out the color. They almost look danceable.

Adrian, this is just my opinion, but they seem too bright to me.

Try these .

Its the beak on top.

I think these might give you a flatter response.

Nice Fred, we haven't heard about the beaks for awhile!

Oh, I don't know about that. Dynamic range; no chance. Bass; not even a question. Imaging; I'd say you can find many expensive bookshelf/monitors that can create better imaging than...well let's just say really good $1500 towers. No slight at all to the M80s - just recognition that there are some speakers out there that are world renowned for their imaging. Just say'en.

I'd be happy to find some bookshelves that sound as good as the m80s in a home theater environment, since I've also been scouting for some bedroom system upgrades that take up much less space. I'm just skeptical I'll get similar results with how much power I've been throwing at my 80s.

Price an issue, or cost be damned? As I talked about above, I don't think you will find a $1500 monitor that would make ditch the M80s, in terms of imaging. But there are a lot of speakers out there that specialize in the audiophile realm in imaging. I could be wrong, but I think I could find a number of articles that put a monitor at the top of the speaker pile, regardless of price or cabinet. I'm sure others have opinions on this.

Considering how close the M22s sound to the M80s I would say the M22 is a match to the imaging/sound quality that the M80 has, just minus the extreme low end.

I was curious so I dropped by the normal publications, and while they are not comparing monitors to M80s, some of the descriptions make clear the monitors tested rank pretty far up there in the speaker hierarchy in terms of clarity and imaging. I hate to post links to other speakers, but for the purpose of discussion of the image available from monitors v. towers, the following may be informative.
1
2
3
As these reviews show, you can get a small speaker in your bedroom that should excite your ears - perhaps the M22!

Adrian and JohnK, I hate to break it to you, but you are completely right. But it is not my fault. For a company dependant on its web page for sales, I find the Axiom page lacking. The best pics I have seen of Axiom speakers has been from owners on this forum. The website does little to entice you to upgrade your veneer as the samples are so hard to comprehend in life size application. Don't they have a 10mb pic of every form of the various options available?

And the shape, wow, all this time I thought the M80/60s had right angles at front and back. The measurements even "make that clear" by not differentiating the width at the front and back. That one pic Adrian pointed out shows the truth, but I'm not sure many see that. Most viewers would think (b/c I did!) that these are traditional rectangles. Contrast this with PSB, who is making the shape of its speaker a major point of marketing. (Granted, the PSB shape is a more radical departure and easier to photo, but still.) Come on Axiom, crank up the multimedia content of the site - it is your lifeblood and your competitors are not resting.

Because I had been to Axiom a few months ago, and seen the speakers first hand, I took the shape/depth of cabinet dimensioning forgranted. You're right, looking at the website, it doesn't really show this feature(to well) or at least it's not obvious.

There's notes in the specs about "anti-standing-wave" cabinets, so it's there. Just kind of buried.

Remember, this forums is intended to be marketing (and generally is!)

Agreed, this forum is the best marketing a company could ask for. While many fear the fanboy syndrome, I think the distrust of the media outlets/"industry press releasers" makes this the most effective medium for the sale of something as subjective as sound.

Just saying, give me some pics, so videos, not a 1x1 square of a finish. They should bombard the viewer with the quality I have seen and read about in the forum. Just my two cents.

Yeah, Charles; there could be a bit more emphasis put on the enclosure design, especially since Ian's research led him to do this very early on. If you haven't seen the AX series from about 20 years ago, you can note that it was a little more obvious at that time. Incidentally, even at that time the Axioms were getting some excellent reviews; for example I read Stereo Review back issues at the library giving highly favorable reviews of the AX5(August 1988)and AX2(April 1990).

Great link, that is cool. It is impressive that Axiom was so far ahead of the curve on this issue. You see most companies are just now getting to this - if at all. I loved the B&W designs that used non-rectangular cabinets. Now i know they actually have a scientific basis.

Yeh, the futures so bright, I gota wear shades... Hey, that's catchy. I should make that into a song.

That is catchy, very retro sounding

Wow, what color was that on the AX5? Very bizarre finish!

80s.