Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners M22 questions Axiom or not? Help!!!

You should definitely contact Axiom about the glue. That is not normal, not even for outlet speakers. You shouldn't see glue, anywhere.

The room itself and the placement of the speakers in the room will affect the 'robustness' of the sound quality.

My den is somewhere around 3200cu ft, and has bare hardwood floors, hardwood paneling on the walls, and many large windows. It is an acoustically bright room. If I run my m22's on their own in there, they sound pretty weak. I actually think 'thin' is an apt description - because that's how I would describe it as well. They have bass, but it's not enough to really hold down the bass end, at least compared to the mids and highs. A good sub, of course, completely fixes that problem.

In my bedroom, where the m22's live now, the room is only about 2000 cu ft. Big bed, heavy curtains, rugs, etc make it an acoustically warmer room. The M22's sound much better in there. Much more balanced and pleasing to listen to. And no sub, just pure m22's. Plenty of bass. Even a bit of 'thump' to them, which surprises me. They sound great. I'm sure the size of the room has something to do with it too, but they just have a lot more presence in that room. I'd almost go so far to say that they sound like different speakers in that room, compared to the den.

That, or it's a difference in the amplification between the den and the bedroom - which I know would start up a firestorm.

Burn-in is a hotly debated topic. Many (including Axiom themselves) say that it does not exist. Or that if it does, it's accomplished within milliseconds of applying power to the speaker. Others will say that speakers need X hours to reach their potential. I've read many a 'professional' review where the reviewer stated that he left the speakers playing for X days and they sounded better after that. So.....

We've had many people show up here with new Axioms claiming they're bright and thin, and after a few posts they'll say that they're sounding better. You would be another one. So something is going on. My feeling is that just like how people dislike certain foods or situations at first but later grow to enjoy it, speakers are the same way. Adaptation is one thing that we humans do pretty well. Or maybe it is actually burn in. Who knows.

Good luck! And seriously, if you're not happy with them, return 'em. That's what the 30-day return policy is for.

Hello Axman

BTW, I really agree with you about the silver faced beauties from the late 70s and 80s. The silver KA9100 in these pictures is one of my best amplifiers. It is built like a piece of military hardware. I'll take some pix of the beautiful heat sinks which are part of the structure.

The KT is really terrific - my second favorite tuner in the house. My favorite is an old Scott tube tuner (drop-dead gorgeous) which I use with my tube amp. We have a wonderful and powerful FM local station in Long Beach which plays great jazz, and for the most part, lately, I listen to FM. Who'd a thunk it.

Anyway, if you think a speaker sounds thin, it probably does. I find all this talk about being used to lesser speakers with bloated bass unconvincing. First of all, our own M3Tis sound better to my ear. Second, there are many superior speakers which are more satisfying. Nevertheless, I've grown to love my M22s now that they've been joined to a nice little sub. I think my 10" Velodyne goes down to 35Hz or something like that, and it makes all the difference in the world.

Enjoy Axman!

Can you guys define what you mean by thin. Are you talking across the whole spectrum or just the bottom end??

When I listened to the M22 + sub vs the M60 there was nothing thin about the sound at all. The difference between the two (aside from the low bass) was very subtle.

That would put you in agreement with those suggesting that the richer sound of other speakers is elevated bass. The difference between the M3 and the M22 is a broad 2-3db hump centered around 100Hz.

The difference between the M22 and M22+ sub is bass extension down to whatever the -3db point is. There is lots of bass between 40 and 60Hz in all music and even down into the 20s in some.

The first case, the M3 is an exageration of the bass in a certain range. The second case is the sub providing sound that the M22 cannot produce.

Yup. That's pretty much the deal. Live music doesn't sound thin. (sorry Philip Glass) M22s on their own do - even female vocals sound ... well, lifeless. The M3s on the other hand sound good. That's what a good hump will do for ya, doncha know.

I have been putting off writing something wanting to give M22’s another chance.

I know about the debate on validity of burning in the speakers.
After this experience I’m thinking that the person ‘burns in’ too.
One can get used to anything, it is only by reference to something else that one can make semi-accurate observation.

I have experimented with different placements and it has become clear that M22 cannot be positioned pointing towards the listening post.
The treble overpowers the bass and makes the speaker sound tiny and thin. I can imagine tiny little piercing needles.
Positioning the speakers away from listening post improves bass but not nearly enough to make you forget what is missing.
The speaker still sounds small,a feeling that never fully goes away.
However, the sound becomes much nicer the treble is less noticeable. It is possible that the room with hardwood floors has something to do with the brightness of high notes.
I have been asking myself if the mid frequencies of M22 are that much better than my old speakers to justify buying a sub. With few instruments, female voices, and mellow tempo the sound is very, very nice. That would be enough. However, the moment the tempo goes up and more instruments come in, the clarity is reduced and high frequencies go up somewhat. Not sure why.

So, while there is improvement in mid frequencies it isn’t enough.

With an equalizer I can duplicate M22 mids. Also, until this point I didn’t realize how tight and controlled that bass is on my old speakers.

The fact that I’m comparing a $500+ M22 to $100 speakers that came with my first stereo system back in the stone age is not a good thing.

I should be blown away by the difference, but I’m not.

I would like everyone to know, how much I appreciate all the advice! The idea of buying a speaker directly from manufacture and being part of the axiom community was very appealing. Everyone here is very nice. I’m sorry I will not be part of it, sort of feel bad about it.
However, M22 is not for me. It does not mean the speaker is bad, it just means I’m looking for a different sound.
I’m planning to return M22 sometime next week when I get sometime.

I'm sorry they didn't work out for you, but we still appreciate hearing your impressions. Thanks for your participation, and don't feel like you can't stick around simply because you didn't elect to keep the Axioms.

first time I've every hear the 22's described this way, wonder if you have something calibrated incorrectly or setup wrong in the receiver.

Thanks. I'm going to stick around for a while.:)

Sorry you didn't like the speakers, but I;m glad you are going to stick around. Let us know how you progress in your speaker quest.