Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Denonites

I was looking at Denons last night wondering if I should have gone over to that side instead of Yamaha.....Amazon has a pretty good deal on the 3808 for anyone that is teetering on a purchase decision.......

Hey, if the Yammy is doing what you need, don't look back. "What if" syndrome is a constant no matter what you buy. Even if you have the money to buy the perfect box every time, a new model will be out in a month. Why fret?

OK, brain, you hear what i just told Argon?
Must....believe.....own.....words...........

Murph,
Is there someplace where I can buy the Kool Aid you have been drinking?

They do? $1,699 isn't a good deal, that's full MSRP. Your local Best Buy Magnolia store probably has it for $1,399. And I've been told that if you call a few certain shops, you can get it for about $1,100.

And if the "deal" is that you get their $500, non 2.0 compliant, year+ old BluRay player for free, well, that's not much of a deal considering that Oppo's superior BR player will be out soon. If you're going to drop $1,700+ on a new AVR + BR combo, I'd far prefer an $1,100 3808 + a $500 Oppo BR player than a $1,700 3808 and their freebie. But that's just me.

I looked at it last night and it was list for $1699 but if you clicked on the "show price in cart" it went down to under $12something. To Murph's point, I was doing a what if and haven't been tracking to know what a good deal is, really. I had just seen it at J&R for $1699 and then Amazon at $1699 with a dramatic drop if you click on the cart button combined with the Blue Ray player. Seemed like a good deal. Particularly if the 2.0 compliance doesn't mean a lot to you?

Just checked back and the cart link that was there last night is no longer there. Or maybe I dreamt it all......

I'm going to say something really mean right now. I am a tech toy geek. I want every new feature and I am always trying to squeeze performance out of my stuff. But, I'm also pretty frugal, so I tend to exhaust all value from an investment before moving on. (Yes, I know those are conflicting traits. Thankfully I have multiple personalities. )

I bought my Denon AVR 3300 in 2000. At that time, it was very well received by the "bought-and-paid-for" critics. I have wanted a new receiver since the words HDMI and Dolby HD entered the lexicon. But I am so happy with the $1,200 I spent on the 3300, almost 9 years ago, that I just can't find an excuse to let it go yet. Other amps may sound better, but this thing has been a tank, and is used constantly in my primary and second zones. Not so many frills, but it runs my 4-6 ohm speakers, with heat, but otherwise without so much as a sweat.

I really hate to hear all the problems with Onkyos, and others, as I would love to branch out. (Always wanted a B&K!) But in a market filled with hype and passing fads, unless Denon has lowered its standards since 2000, their AVRs are truly a worthwhile investment. At this point, I'm simply figuring out if I want the 3000, 4000 or 5000 series, and when to pull the trigger.

Sorry Murph, I have to agree with your brain - it makes a compelling argument.

They all sound good to me in a show room. Still, out of all the recievers I've had over the years, Kenwoods, HK, Pioneers, I would take my current Yamaha anyday. I couldn't be happier with it.

If I had to complain I'd say it weighs too much and gets a bit hot, I had to cool mine with a fan.

Good to hear Yammy is making a good product. And I have to cool my Denon with a fan too, so I can't deduct points for that.

Ok....you forced it out of me....the whole reason for the what if....* brain is saying stop *.....I am closed to (finally) purchasing the Axioms. I actually ordered some of the vinyl samples on a "what if & WAF" this past Monday. Should be here Friday. The what if on the Yamaha is that it will not let me set different crossover points by mains, center, surround. It is all or none. Now, it will let me set the fronts to large and give them the full range. So....if you take Alan's advice it is set them all to 80 as a cross and be done with it. I read or heard on one of the videos that Ian does different crossovers for his mains. I am planning on getting the Epic 60 500 5.1.

Am I *now sweating profusely* putting too much thought (yes) into this. Will I care if they are all 80 and set to small? Will it overload the bass if I set the fronts to large?

BTW, I am imitating St.Pat Guy's style because I think it is funny (ha ha funny that is) the way he describes the physical motions going on behind his posts.....

We teach what we must learn, grasshopper.

Steve and all,
A while back, I was confused by pricing shown on web sites (MSRP) too. I found out that they only show list price on the web. You must call them to get the discounted price! With 6Ave (others too?) you just say you are an AVS member and you get the $1,100 price. That simple! As I will repeat again, always call for prices from 6Ave before going with a published package deal. 30 seconds and you have your answers. No wondering.

Zimm, as I understand it, we will be hearing of a new series (three new models) in about two weeks. I am awaiting that news to balance between even a better deal on a 3808 or jump to newer bells and whistles. Not much info, but a few hints.
- Good chance for more HDMI's (out too? we don't know, just more ;o)
- PlexIIxZ adding 9.1 fronts (Probably as pre-outs, but powered would be a real big deal IMHO)

Two weeks can be a loooong time.

New models would explain the price on Amazon last night. Trying to dump inventory before it is officially a closeout...

I wonder if I fried my 3808 well enough to qualify for a new replacement and if they are (hopefully) starting to run low on 3808's.................

You could MAKE SURE it is cooked properly, Jay

Next time

Ok.....it's back. I googled Denon 3808 and the Amazon ad pops up with the click to see price.

Rob, all of the major brands, Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer, Yamaha, etc. give us audibly flawless amplification within their designed limits, so the determining factor becomes features in relation to price. For example, possibly the major factor in possibly preferring a Denon or Onkyo receiver over a similar Yamaha unit would be Audyssey vs YPAO.

This is quiet a few posts back but just to let you know, I saw nothing 'mean' in your words Zimm. You simply expressed an opinion. Everybody has them and discussing them is what we are all here for.

I would really like to hear from the group on my ponderings regarding Large vs. Small and variable crossovers vs. the fixed that Yamaha offers. Given that I am going to get the M60s - if I set to small and cross at 80 am I selling myself short? As far as setting them to Large, I suppose that will be a personal taste as to whether I am overloading the bass up front - but, I welcome opinions - and.....I've noticed this group is NOT shy about offering opinions....

And I was just kidding. I do hate to rattle the cages when one gets into a comfort zone, as my cage is a rattle-trap. But, I do like my Denon and as a cheap bastard I have to celebrate a $1000+ purchase that I can still consider a value.



For me, 80hz is too high for music. It makes the sub work in a region it is not best suited for and does not sound as good in my system. For HT, 80 is fine. Best case, for me, would be individual crossovers for each speaker, but I don't have that option. So I set to large and cross the sub over very low so my towers do the work, and sub just helps. Note that the bass signals require more power from the amp, so in my setup, my amp is working hard to produce signals my speakers probably can't even produce (i.e., 20-40hz). So if amp power is an issue, the 80hz cutoff would help with headroom.

Argon,
IMHO being able to have non-global crossovers will give you more flexibility to set the system to your liking. Of course I am being hypocritical here in that I just purchased an AVR with global crossovers, but I also do not have almost full range towers so it was almost a non-issue for my particular setup. If I were getting M60 or 80's I think I would lean towards more flexibility in the crossovers. Of course we always want it all, but that rarely happens!

I've tried a number of crossovers so far and it is difficult to say which is/sounds the best. My sub is located at the back of the room(only place for it), and I felt that at 80hz It was localizing so I dropped it down to 60hz which I feel works better. If, the sub were located up front with the mains, the 80hz cross might have worked better but for me that wasn't in the cards. I'm still trying various settings and have found that some settings work better for concert DVDs and some for Movies/TV ect...kind of depends to some degree, whether you prefer more bass up front or not as to how you set your speakers. Try different setups, see what you like.

Ok, Adrian, no issues with 60 hz cross and the QS8s?

The QS8s are set at 80hz as is the VP150. Only the M80s are at 60Hz.

Zimm,
I don't think amp power will be an issue - the Yamaha gives me the option to set the M60s to large and send the full range to the fronts & the Sub. I will experiment both ways......Argon

I like the small, have tried large setting, but for my ear large sounds muddy when I play them too loud, and small they open up and sound clean. For my room the fronts are at 80, center at 100, surrounds at 120, all in small, the sub 80. But that is what sounds best to me and my ear for that room. So I think it is up to what you like and sounds good to you.

Gieseman, your settings seem off to me.

The sub should be on by-pass/highest cross over setting on its amp, otherwise you are missing the low frequencies from the center and surrounds which you have crossed over well above 80.

Or are you refering to the LFE channel in the receiver for the sub and it is set at 80, which many suggest should be set to 120 or the highest possible in the receiver.

Thanks, Jakewash I will try that, and the sub is in by-pass. I will change it now. Thanks again