Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Newbie needs advise

Hello All,

I am seriously considering buying Axioms as speakers for my HT system.

I have a medium sized room and will be using the setup for about 60% HT and 40% music

I already have an Onkyo SC885P pre/pro and Emotiva XPA-3 (200W RMS) amp on order.

Initially I am just looking to purchase front towers and center coupled with the subwoofer.

What I cannot decide between is the M80 or the M60

I would like to know as in what would be a better choice of the two?

Also, does Emotiva play nice with Axioms??

Thanks

Hello Nick20,

First off, welcome to the forum .

There have been some documented cases of some Axiom owners having shutdown issues with certain Emotiva Amplifiers (with the m80's) while others have had no issues (I forget the models off the top of my head). Some of the people that have had issues with Emotiva and the Axiom M80's are regular forum members here so they can provide you with better and more detailed information than I.
The most popular match with the M80's are the mid-higher end Denon avr models among the forum members here.

Good luck in your speaker journey!

Cheers!

I recommend the M60s.

The reason is this....although there are some amps out there that can handle the M80's 4 ohm load, I prefer a speaker that does not give an amp "something it needs to handle".

The M60s will be great for what you are describing. If You have not read it already, I did a 5 year review in the "Stereo" thread that may help you decide.

hello Dr House

Thanks for the welcome!!!

I sure will go ahead and talk to members who have the M80s and ask them what would be a good amp to pair with them.



I agree to what you say. I am fine with the M60s also but was just trying to be future proof

Will just go looking for the thread you have mentioned

Also, I have auditioned the Paradigm Studio 100s and B&W 683s.

In what category does the M60s fall when compared to the speakers above.

the reason i ask is, I haven't heard the Axioms in action

My question is how are you going to use a 3-channel amp for HT, you will need at least a 5 or 7 channel amp since a preamp does not amplify.

The m60's and m80's are similar to B&W 703's or better, or the Paradigm Studio lineup.

I won't

I am building my HT setup incrementally Getting the Towers and Center coupled with the sub woofer now, and will get another 3 channel amp and rear speakers later

(Don't wanna alarm my wife... she already complains that our house looks like best buy!!)

Nice to know that they compare to 7 series B&Ws I love the 6 series so I am guessing i will be pleased with M60s as well

but would love to know how to they match up to the Paradigm Studio 100s? Cause I had almost made up my mind before I was suggested to check out Axioms

The M80s would line up close to the 100, the M60 close to the 60.

That's why i wanted the M80s, but i was told that Emotiva has trouble driving them

How do they compare to the psb line

I had problems with the Emo MPS-1, some have had issues with the XPA amps, some have not. Emotiva will tell you the 80's dip below 4ohms which is dead wrong. Emo makes nice stuff, and I wish them well, but for whatever reason some people have had issues with 4ohm speakers and some of their amps, even other brand speakers, not just Axiom.

There are some 80's owners on here that have had no issues with Emo.

How are you going to have 7.1 with 2 3-channel amps down the road? With the 80's you would be better getting some monoblocks from Outlaw Audio, Odyssey, etc. and then later get a 5 channel amp for the rest of your speakers, imo.

You really need to listen to speakers yourself and make your own opinion. I would check the audition thread in the Hearing Things section to see if there is an Axiom owner in your area...

So it almost sounds like pick of the draw, for both Axiom as well as Emotiva

Hmm... I think I will stick to M60s for now and might dispose of them later in favor of M80s if I really feel the need for it
But if i feel that the trouble with the Amp is few and far between i might still go for the M80




Thanks for the heads-up will check out the forum to see if I can get an audition for the same over here

I was looking at PSB as well, but ultimately because of both the price and the better customer service I went with Axiom speakers.

I've got the m80s and so will you.

I'd almost say to pay the small difference and get the 80's, that way you don't have to worry about upgradeitis. Where are you located Nick? Also, if money is an issue, you can order from the Factory Outlet and save 10%, plus another 5% if you order 5 or more items.

randy

He He!! I seem to be going the same route here Though I am getting a pair of psb Synchrony Twos for 2100 a pair, I am getting the entire HT set from Axiom at the same cost Which surely feels like more bang for the buck



Randy,

I am located in Seattle. Looking for someone who owns the 80s to get an audition

I am ordering from the factory outlet itself. I seem to be saving cash and right now I am in the process of switching apts hence i do not mind the 4 week wait

Nick, If you go to the Emotiva forum you can find many happy Emotiva/M80 owners there. I think you will find the same kind of success. Another option would be to try a pro amp like the Crown XTI 1000, I think this is where my future purchase lies.

XTI 1000 seems like a great idea

Next year when I get the surrounds also, I will get the above amp for my mains and use the Emotiva for the surrounds and center

BTW, where can one buy the XTI series? Online?

Aren't you dealing with fan noise with an amp like that?

Nick, save up and get the Axiom 1400-8channel digital amp, you will never need another amp again.

I would love to, but 3500 is too costly for me Atleast right now it is

Nick20,

Generally the advice around here when it comes to pairng Emotiva with the M80's errs on the side of caution because of past shutdown issues that some owners have experienced. The Axiom audio specialists will tell you the same thing. They have not been the most reliable unlike a lot of the Denon, HK and Sherwood Newcastle Models which have had very little history of problems with the M80's. Here is a somewhat recent thread of somone using the XPA3 with the m80's :). I am not sure if anyone else uses this amp?

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=240572&fpart=2

I support this line of thinking. My 1400 has been great.

To be fair, the issue seems to be around the protection circuitry of certain Emotiva amps. There are some that have also had success with other Emotiva amps and M80s.

The lesson? Don't use protection.

The link I posted shows the person was successfully running the XPA3 and M80's.

Yup!!!

I think I will take the plunge and order the M80s

Though they will take a month 'cause I am ordering from the Factory outlet

That is excellent news Nick20. Keep us up to date if and when you place your order.

It could take 3-4 weeks from an order from the factory outlet but in some cases it can get shipped earlier than that.

Good luck!

Like if you're gonna be out of town or in the middle of a move.

I forgot to mention Nick20 is if you do order the 80's and you find the amp shutting down, within the 30 day trial period you could trade in the 80's for the 60's (shipping paid for) and get refunded the price difference between them.

My opinion and take for what it's worth but I would trade in the amp before getting rid of the M80"s
Mel N.

Or, if it was me I'd keep the 80's and get a different amp, since it is not the speakers fault the amp shut down.

Yeah, that'd be the way to go.

He did say he had the XPA-3 on order and I do not know the status of that order (I'm not going to assume either). I am just letting Nick20 know of all the available options that he would have available to him if he does decide with the 80's. Saying all that I do agree with the both of you .

Welcome to the forum, Nick20.

<sigh>... The old M80 vs Emotiva amp debate...

The debate is that M80's may dip to very low impediences (~2.6 ohm) under certain conditions which cause some of Emotiva's amps to go into a protect mode. I have heard of shutdown problems with the discontinued MPS-1 and the current XPS-2. I've not heard of problems with any other Emotiva amps, though I would be suspect of the MPS-2 because it's basically the same as the MPS-1.

Several people around here paid a lot of money for a higher end Emotiva amp only to have it not be able to power their M80's. A pretty big disappointment.

Emotiva points a finger at the M80's crossover design as the culprit, stating that they're not designed to keep their impedance from dipping below 3 ohms under certain conditions. And at this condition of very low impediance, caused by some combination of volume, frequency, and/or the alignment of the planets, their amps shut down to protect the M80's from pulling too much current. That, apparently, is a bad thing. So they say.

Axiom has not directly responded to Emotiva (that I am aware of), but there are many here who have readily pointed out independent testing data that show that M80's barely dip to 4-ohms. And there are many folks around here driving M80's with far less expensive amplification that don't seem to have any problems. Common, mainstream Denon AVR's, for example. Hints on other forums of other 4-ohm speakers having problems with Emotiva amps also adds fuel to the fire.

There is some issue as to whether it's just a problem with M80Ti's (the previous version) or the newer M80V2. The crossover networks are different, and the data that I've seen on this low-impedance phenomenon were done on a Ti. Though I'm almost positive that Sirquack has M80v2's, and he had many problems with his MPS-1. And he (IIRC) even asked Emotiva to send him MPS modules with their current-limiting features removed. It didn't help. So

It's an impasse.

Some Emotiva zealots have turned to say that Axiom speakers are crap. And some Axiom zealots have turned to say that Emotiva amps are crap. Since there's really no way for a 'normal person' to measure their M80's impedance, then there's really no way for it to be proven who's at fault. Any evidence that comes from the abyss of the Internet will be looked upon with disdain by the un-favored party.

Perhaps some M80's drivers or crossover networks are slightly out of spec. Perhaps some Emotiva amps were defective. Perhaps both. Who knows.

The bottom line is that if you are looking at pairing M80v2's and specifically the MPS-1/2 or XPS-2, be aware that it is possible that you'll need to use the 30-day money-back guarantee by one (or both) companies. Both fully stand behind their returns. If/when you get the setup, run it through its paces. I have not heard of any problems with XPS-3's and M80 shutdown issues, but that's not to say they don't exist.

There are several happy Emotiva + M80v2 owners around here. I continue to be thrilled with my LPA-1 + M80v2 setup. Nary a peep of oddness from the LPA amp. Totally happy with it. If I had to do it all over again today I wouldn't hesitate to order another Emotiva amp, probably the XPS-5.

It's a shame that there's a tinge of bad blood there. Both companies make great products, have great prices, and have great customer service. You should feel comfortable ordering from either, because they will be there to support you.

Good luck! And if your go through with your M80 + XPS-3 plan, do be sure to let us know how it goes. I'm sure that many here would like to hear about your experience with the pair, positive or negative. Both here and over in the Emotiva Lounge.

I have contacted a few owners that have Crown or similar amps pro amps and they say the fans rarely, if ever, cut in, they are thermal switched and the amp needs to hit a certain temp before it turns on. I guess if you were to run it in an enclosed area it would be on more but the enclosed area would keep the fan noise to a minimum.