Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Side surrounds X 2 and front height speakers?

I’ve started to put together the plan for the height speakers. I decided against using Accents. They sound OK, but the way the mount will make routing speaker cables a bit difficult. My next choice would be some of the in wall speakers, but I’m pretty limited with wall space above my screen. I only have 13” and the W-3’s are 13.5”. I can lower my screen an inch, but then the M80’s would really be in the way. Dangit……

Considering that I’m running M80’s for R/L and a pair of M22’s for the center, what do y’all think the best speakers to match with my front channels? Without any consideration to my limited wall space issue, what would be the preferable speakers, ranked in order??? Once I know that, I can start getting creative with placement / mounting ideas.

Also, what is the preferred placement of height speakers in relation to the mains? Directly above, in, out, how high above??

Seeing how I’m going to have to cut holes and pull more cable, I may just get a whole new set of speakers. I’ve been wanting to swap the vinyl speakers out for wood speakers and swap out the EP600 for two 500’s for a couple years anyway.

Wouldn't M2s be a better sonic match to M80s? What about mounting them on their side considering imaging is probably not an issue with "Height speakers"?

I agree with Mark that M2s would be a better sonic match. Either an M2 or W2 would fit in 13”. Since these are “height” channels I’m guessing most of there information is going to be ambient so it could be interesting to try QS speakers in that role. Both of the VP speakers would fit in that space and really any Axiom speaker turned on it’s side would fit. Because of the way the height channel is deriving it’s information vertical orientation may not be that important.

Ya, I supose the M2's would be a more ideal match.

I'm wondering if Q's wouldn't be better after reading this at the Dolby web sight.

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Because it processes only nondirectional sounds for the height channels, Dolby Pro Logic IIz maintains the integrity of the source mix, so the effects are always appropriate to the material. This added dimension complements the sound from the rear surround speakers, increasing spaciousness while staying true to the original intent of the content creator.

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"Non Directional". Wouldn't that be better suited with non directional speakers like the Q's?

Since, as I understand it, you can use can’t use the surround backs and the height channels at the same time you could if you already have them move your back QS speakers up there and see how it sounds.

While I tend to agree that the dispersion of the QS speakers would work better in the height role I would be hesitant to spend that kind of money on something that to me doesn’t sound like it’s going to have a huge effect.

I get the logic behind why DPLll and DPLllx work since you can pull ambient information from the L/R channels and feed it to the appropriate surround and back speakers, however, seems like a bit of a stretch you could really pull that much vertical information out of a horizontal array of channels.

If the goal is to create a “wall of sound” I’ve done that easily by using 2 center channels one above and the other below the screen.

I haven’t read much about the DPLllz yet. Do the recommend mount the height speakers even with the other front speakers or should they be pulled out closer to the seating?

They are not very helpful on the Dolby sight. They just say the height speakers should be mounted above the mains. No more detail than that.

The Denon 4310 uses the SB’s for the height or width speakers, so you are right, I’d loose those channels if I were to buy a 4310. The 4810, from what I’ve read will have 9 amp sections and I would be able to run a 9.1 system.

I think this will catch on pretty quick though. Just like PLIIx and HD formats did. I've been talking so someone who is using height speakers with his new 4310 and he loves it, so there is apparently enough information to do some good.

I just picked up a second NHT P-5 amp, so I’ll have ten, 200w / 8 ohm – 340w / 4 ohm amps to play with. With the second set of side surrounds, I’ll still need to use two of the 4810’s amps for an 11.1 system. Not real sure how this will all play out, as I haven’t seen a spec sheet on the 4810 yet. – I may just wait till the end of the year and see what gets showed at Cedia. I suspect with PLIIz, there will be a bunch of new receivers / pre-pro’s out.

I need to disassembly my room to run more speaker wire for my second set of QS8 side surrounds, pull in new HDMI cables (installed four years ago for 720P) and change some coax cables around for the dual subs; I figured that would be an ideal time to prepare for the height speakers. I’ll be cutting sheet rock and re-painting. I’m also playing with the idea of running a VP 150 above my screen and pair it with my M22’s for the center channel. I’d have to bi-amp that channel if I do that most likely. I'll either do that mix of speakers, or I may just pick up two VP150’s for an over / under screen set up and see what arrangement I like best.

Just read this. Not sure where they got their placement info.

Onkyo TX-SR607



They specifically revisited DPLllz here:

Dolby Pro Logic IIz: Taking a second listen

Maybe you are having better luck with DPLllx than I have but so far I’m totally unimpressed by it. DPLll is usually a notable improvement but overall I’ve found DPLllx a downgrade in performance. Reason being that with QS8s in a 5.1 configuration, surrounds pushed back to 135 degrees from center I’ve gotten a perfect 360 degree sound field in two different rooms. When I add the backs for 7.1 I hear no improvement from the 5.1 sound field. Now I have been blessed by having rooms that are symmetrical in the back with seating symmetrical to the corners.

OTOH. with some games (Elder Scrolls Oblivion for one) it totally screws up the directional queues causing sounds panning across the back to weaken and then more or less jump from one side to the other unless I turn up the back speakers by +8dB which then makes them way to loud for anything else.

I’ve been hoping this DPLllz would really expand the front soundstage w/o screwing up the discrete placement of sounds. The best overall front soundstage I’ve had so far was with the M80 or an M22 center mounted vertically above the HDTV. In both cases it created a wall of sound w/o disrupting the horizontal locations of discrete sounds (only an issue for music not movies) to much. The best front soundstage I’ve gotten for movies alone was with 2 M22s laying horizontally above the HDTV. It totally screwed up the imaging for music but for movies it made it just like a theater. It was the most seamless blend of sound across the front I’ve had w/o any speaker drawing attention to itself while still maintaining proper imaging for the sound to match the on screen action.

Looking forward to your experiences with DPLllz.

I can’t remember if you ever picked up a second set of surround speakers. I curious if you did or anyone else has.

I’m wondering because I’m pricing out various sets of speakers to buy with my VP150 trade-up and was considering that if I add another row of seats at some point that the narrowness of the room might benefit from another pair of surrounds.

No, I never did. I decided that I have too much going on this room anyway. Plus I blew my A/V allowance on a new video processor, couple 500’s and a VP150.

Has anyone one tried to polyplanarize all 6 room surfaces??
This may be one for Mr. bbig.