Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler ABCs of APC UPSs

Huh?

Anyway, I'm a big user of UPS units... I literally have probably 12 or so in use and another 3-4 down in my workshop with a need for replacements. ALL of them are APC units, and almost all of them are ~1100 ~ 1200 units, purchased at Sam's Club, etc... NOT from a "pro" or "Server" line. I'm beginning to wonder about the quality of them.

It seems as though when I buy a unit, I only get maybe a year and a half to two years tops out of it before the "battery warning" starts buzzing and letting me know it needs a replacement. And when the batteries run ~$120 or so, I typically feel like I might as well buy a whole new unit for ~$180 instead.

Have any of you IT people in the "know" been hearing anything about UPS units and lifespan, quality, etc.?

I just hauled one out of my office because it was putting out a stink like burning hair or like it just went to the salon and got a perm! I've smelled something similar once when a capacitor blew in a flash head. It was hot as hell, too. I put it out on my back porch an hour ago, and I still can't touch the bottom metal plate. At least nothing caught fire. Yet.

I think I need a new one ASAP!

I'm pretty sure we had an approx. 2 year replacement cycle on APC UPS batteries back when I was responsible for the servers that were plugged into them.

So you're thinking that this might just be typical? Maybe I'm expecting too much in assuming that the lead acid batteries in there should be good for 4 years, like all the ones I used to use for portable lights in video production or like a car battery?

The way the UPS uses the battery is what cuts its life in half. Because the UPS wants to deliver a maximum run time in the event of power failure the battery is always topped off. Normal use of a battery is to run it down quite a bit before charging it again.

I was looking at a PurePower UPS, which is intended for home theater use (and has a price tag which gives away that intention). One nice thing about is it does periodically run on battery to attempt to keep the cells conditioned.

2 years. Uh huh. Unless you're talking about different ones than the ones I inherited, Peter, it was more like 6-8 years. That's actually about the point where I generally see them fail. Mark, are you using Smart-UPS or Back-UPS? Smart-UPS seem to last a lot longer.

Hmmmm... all the ones immediately around me are Back-UPS....

Ah yeah, those things die quickly.

Interesting. The ups units in our plant are all APC and are between 3 and 5 years old. We had the first two fail this year (one today).

I'll probably end up with an APC because I'll need something sooner rather than later, and they're so widely available. And, I probably WON'T get the SMART UPS line, because I'll just have a hard time convincing Joyce (and myself too, I guess) that they're worth being more than double the cost...

I guess this has still been helpful as no one has said unequivocally that APC brand units have reliability issues.

Are you doing the Trade-UPS program? Might knock a little bit off the cost.

Hmmmm.. I'm not familiar with it. Thanks, I'll look into it!

Speaking of failing batteries... Is there any way to test, or tell if a battery is close to failing?

I can just wait and every time a production computer crashes due to power outage, but I prefer a more elegant solution.

There should be some sort of management interface you can use; there's also the test button on the UPS--whatever that does. You could always just unplug it from the wall...

To the best of my knowledge (and I'm pretty sure about this), this is NOT a good idea with lead acid batteries. NiCad, definitely, and nickel metal hydride & li-ion sometimes, depending upon use patterns and "memory" issues.

As an engineer who uses a lot of rechargeable batteries and replaced my Macbook battery 4x, I should've realized this. My APC UPS beeped years ago after about 5 years of use. It never occurred to me that it was the battery. I just stopped using that block of plugs out of sheer laziness.

Are there any reasonably priced UPS's that have a replaceable battery? Or are home users just expected to buy new ones every few years? That'd be a waste.

They're replaceable. Just expensive.

I should've said is there a type that has 'reasonable' replacement batteries or does it end up costing the same buying new ones?

I do the unplug thing every once in a while, but I know I checked the one that failed today when the first one failed and it showed no problems.

I noticed the computer connection on the new ones today. Guess I have something to check out at work Tomorrow night.

Is it ever recommended to just apply a load to these (say, a 60 watt bulb) and just let them run down occasionally (NOT down to the point of -0- amperage, but just down to, say, 15%)?

It's been hit or miss with our units at work. We've had some on line for 6+ years without a hickup and we've had others that lasted about a year including a HUGE APC unit with 2 - 20 Amp circuits that will run over an hour at full load! The batteries on that unit died about a week after the warranty expired. I got replacement batteries from Planet Battery and it's been fine for several years now.

Scott

Thanks, Scott! As I mentioned, I've got a few UPS units sitting in my basement, needing a battery change. I'm going to check into that trade-ups program a bit more to see what I can get for them in comparison to replacing the batteries, but have a question:

I've read before that some types of spike protectors actually "wear out" over time... Does anyone know if this applies to UPS units?

In short: If I replace a battery in a two year old UPS, is it as good as new? This would likely determine whether I replace the batts in the ones downstairs or trade them in.

BTW, this is my 5,000th post. I feel an incredibly overwhelming desire to call Jack old, JP crazy, or at least make a fart or booby joke to mark the occasion.

Hi Mark,

We have UPS's all over the place at work, but I've only had one at home. I think we took a lightning strike , because one night during a storm, it fried; I mean, the blue smoke got out and everything. It was the only electronic hardware that was effected that night. After that, it only passed 120VAC, but no battery and no surge protection. Basically it was an expensive, but short, extension cord.
Since then, I have not used one at home. Maybe I should, considering our iMac is considerably more expensive than a small UPS...

I do have Brick Wall units on my AV equipment, but no battery back-up.

Scott

I know it's a bit rude to bump my post, but I wonder if it was a matter of no one seeing it or no one having an answer. Besides, it's not about Bose or Apple or Religion or Politics:

~~~~~~~~~~~
I've read before that some types of spike protectors actually "wear out" over time... Does anyone know if this applies to UPS units?

In short: If I replace a battery in a two year old UPS, is it as good as new? This would likely determine whether I replace the batts in the ones downstairs or trade them in.
~~~~~~~~~~~

Anyone? Pretty please? I've got 5 UPS units to decide this with...!

Wish I knew the answer to that, Mark.

Well, thanks for looking! Come again!

I think the surge protectors wearing out has to do with them only lasting through one spike. I would suspect that if UPSes deal with simliar spikes in similar ways, they'd also wear out. But if the fans still work on the UPSes, they only complain about the battery, and if you put a new battery in they cease complaining, they're still good. But I'm really not sure.

Mark:

I'm an electronics technician and at one time I did bench repair for a company that made industrial UPS's for the cable television industry. To my knowledge there is nothing in a UPS that would wear out. A UPS basically senses voltage and switches to the battery and voltage inverter to create AC when the voltage drops below a set threshold. They are pretty simple circuits all in all.

The only thing I could think of that would remotely wear out are the capacitors but modern caps are robust and don't dry out like the old caps did. I don't remember ever having replaced parts on a UPS because they wore out.

Unless the UPS's have taken a lightning hit, I would just replace the batteries.

The UPS you mentioned that has the electronics stink probably did fry and I wouldn't bother replacing the battery in it.

I'm not familiar with the UPS's you have but the ones I repaired just used a standard motorcycle battery. Maybe you can source a cheaper battery for yours if you look around?

Good luck,

Joe

Thanks, Joe! I appreciate the reply!

I think it was surge suppressors that used Metal-Oxide something or another that I read "wear out" over time....

Mark:

Here is interesting read on surge protectors if you are interested: Surge protectors.

What you are asking about is a MOV (metal oxide varistor) that will shunt spikes and or surges and you are right they can burn out with a good enough surge. I didn't think about surge protection because the UPS's I repaired didn't have any (the cable companies used a separate industrial grade dedicated surge protector in front of the UPS's), sorry about that.

I found the schematics for an APC 1200 and had a look, they do use MOV's on the input and they don't show the ratings just a part number so I'm not sure how big a spike they can handle before they need replacing.

I'll see your 5 UPS units and raise you a Bose. ::puts on best poker face::

Bought a new APC UPS today.

I have been having problems lately.. at least once every day or two everything plugged into my old APC battery unit would shut down (receiver, TV, ps3, ect.) and then come right back on. This would happen in the middle of a movie or game and was really annoying (not to mention probably bad for my electronics). The old one was only rated at 500VA/300W and was about 4-5 years old. I suspect that the Power strip was causing the problems (breakers never flipped in the back room). Hopefully this won't happen anymore with the new APC. It also looks pretty freaking cool with the lighted info screen.

I bought an APC 1500VA 865 Watt unit. It was on sale at staples for $169.99.
Also, as a bonus it has a power save feature that allows me to plug my receiver into the "Master" input and my subwoofer into the "Secondary" input so that my ep500 shuts off when my receiver is turned off. I haven't took effort to hook a 12 v trigger cable up to my ep500 and denon so it is nice to finally let my sub power off.

I was looking at those the other day, as I received an advance Staples flyer that showed all APC UPS units on sale... That's a pretty decent price on it and will likely pick one up tomorrow as well! Thanks, David!

No problem.
With my 50" LCD rp, denon 3808, and PS3 hooked up to the battery supply the most I am pulling is about 450 watts when playing an online mulitplayer game on the ps3. My ep500 is also plugged in, but not into one of the 5 battery enabled outlets so I don't think that the wattage displayed includes that. This is at typical listening levels, with my DVR on in the background as well. IF I have my xbox360 running in the background you can add about 100 more watts.
Battery run time is about 12 minutes in the above scenario.